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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1776
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| Posted: 03 March 2025 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | 1
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If Europe felt threatened by Russia, she would have mobilized for war. I don't believe Russia has any designs on Europe, and I don't believe the Europeans think they do either - no matter what they might say in public. I don't believe Russia even wants all of Ukraine. The Western part is rabidly anti-Russian, and has been for a long time. I think Russia will stop at the Dnieper, and see what the deal offered them is. They might take Odessa, and Kharkov. If negotiations break down, or the AFU collapses, who knows what would happen.
As far as Trump goes, I don't think he, or any US president, has a lot of leverage on Russia in this case.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6670
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| Posted: 03 March 2025 at 11:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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Brennon: Ukraine has no agency. Nearly everything it has comes from the
West. Just think what a cutoff of ISR would mean. Europe can't replace
what the US provides. The writing is on the wall.
**
Tell the nearly 900,000 dead Russian soldiers that “Ukraine has no agency.”
Kiev was going to fall in 2 weeks according to millions of on-line know-it-
alls. The “writing has been on the wall” for 3 years now. When the European
support is cut off, when the people of Ukraine surrender, then it will be
“over.” Except it won’t be, since there’s no point to this mad war except for
it to continue. The end of Ukraine will be the beginning of the next war.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6670
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| Posted: 03 March 2025 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 3
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Brennon: I don't believe Russia has any designs on Europe, and I don't
believe the Europeans think they do either - no matter what they might say
in public. I don't believe Russia even wants all of Ukraine.
**
Oh cool, one of these “they don’t mean what they tell you” guys. Putin and
Trump depend on a vast number of us never believing they’ll do what they
say they will.
So often they win without having to fight hard because others start
compromising when they don’t need to and convincing themselves it’ll all
be fine since it’s all a bluff. That’s been working out just great so far!
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1776
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 12:11am | IP Logged | 4
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Trump just cut off all military aid to Ukraine.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4906
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 3:05am | IP Logged | 5
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Trump is the worst of us, and he brings out the worst in us.Only if you voted for him, which I never did.
-C!
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6670
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 3:09am | IP Logged | 6
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All this given to Russia for what?
What did the art of the deal win for us?
When does Trump University replace the Apprentice as our dominant mode
of understanding this maniac?
And what is Rupert Murdoch loving in this new world order that he has
brought us?
What Captain America would do now. It’s a lovely thought.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 04 March 2025 at 3:12am
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31461
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 3:15am | IP Logged | 7
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Trump just cut off all military aid to Ukraine
****
As if this wasn’t going to happen anyway.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8004
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 6:31am | IP Logged | 8
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Trumps MO is to offer the worst possible deal, then get something which is
much less, but roughly what he actually wanted.
He will also manipulate a situation to create events that allow him to make a
decision he was already going to do.
As Brian says, he was always going to pause that aid - he just wanted an
excuse - constantly pushing Zelenski’s buttons, getting proxies to insult him
- has given him that excuse.
He’s working on getting that excuse to leave NATO, that will come.
Scary stuff
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 9
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Brennan, Europe gives more aid to Ukraine than the US. Granted only by a few billion dollars but still. The orange guy's claim of $350Bn is a hallucination just like his economic policies. They won't be happy about it, but they can make up the difference.
The Russians have paid a brutal price for very little apart from fostering generational animosity with a "sister" country. With the tariffs supposedly kicking in tomorrow, I want to say something to all the Canadians on the board:
When, after 9/11, George Bush referred to Britain as our best friend, and people asked “what about Canada?”, I said “they’re like our little brother who is probably smarter than us.” They’re family. I would never have dreamed we would treat them this way. Canada? “Sorry” doesn’t begin to express the depth of regret I feel for the oncoming tsunami of idiocy we are about to visit upon you. And ourselves. |
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Edward Aycock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2024
Location: United States
Posts: 24
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 10
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"We cannot leave the security of Europe in the hands of the voters in Wisconsin every 4 years"- France's Europe Minister Jean-Noel Barrot.
Very true, yet we do.
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3632
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 11
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I have a friend who's visiting Iceland with her daughter next month and while I haven't expressed it to her - I don't really wanna be a Captain Bringdown before her trip - I'm definitely concerned as to how an American will be received there in this moment.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16080
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| Posted: 04 March 2025 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 12
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When we think of a democracy, we commonly think it means we vote in our leaders. I think a genuine democracy is about transparency and leaders being answerable to the electorate. The leader should not be allowed to push through nonsensical policy -- they should have to be able to justify actions they have undertaken, and face possible removal if they are damaging their country. Honestly, does Trump even know what these tariffs are supposed to achieve? The US auto industry will inevitably be damaged by this. US consumers will pay higher prices for this. The economy will slow because of this. Jobs will be lost because of this. Where is the benefit for anyone?
Edited by Peter Martin on 04 March 2025 at 7:23pm
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