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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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Sure, cuz those brave men and women couldn’t have been brave on their own.
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Paul Gibney
Byrne Robotics Member.
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1076
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 2
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To me, the key part is the "If". Clearly, there was no other evidence God intervened.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 3
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Many years ago I was delighted by a news item out of NYC. A reporter commented on the “miraculous” success of a very difficult surgery recently performed. The head doctor turned on the reporter and, clearly angry, said miracles had nothing to do with it. It was all due to the highly trained and competent staff who did the actual work. We need more of that.
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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | 4
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Sadly, I've found no matter how much evidence you show believers that there is no god from churches being struck by lightning or burning down or, you know, kids dying from cancer, that there is no loving benevolent god that cares about and protects them or anyone else, they will just say things like the lord is working in mysterious ways or testing us. They love enabling their invisible friend in the sky. At the very least, they could come to the logical conclusion that their god really hates churches, but logic really isn't their strong suit. I don't mean to be flippant about what was lost in this case with all the art and history, but I find religion odious, especially being in the bible belt where it permeates and dilutes every damn thing.
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Jeffrey Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1161
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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I was quite relieved to read about what survived. The Paris Firefighters did a great job. Experts have been quoted that an additional 15-30 minutes and the fire would truly have taken out the entire structure.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15797
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 6
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I understand restoring the Notre Dame is important, but... 600 million euros seems a lot. Are there better things to do with that money?------------------------------------ Probably. But people are free to spend their money as they wish. This isn't public funds being siphoned off; it's rich folks voluntarily reaching into their pockets to restore a building considered interlinked with the cultural identity of their country.
There were probably better things for the French people to spend their money on than building the Statue of Liberty and shipping it to the States, but people in France figured they were happy to spend money celebrating an ideal.
Spending money on building or restoring something for others to enjoy in posterity seems quite an upstanding thing to do compared to, say, simple spending money on oneself.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1648
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | 7
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David Schmidt wrote:
| I don't believe in God but I'm sad. Religion has nothing to do with this. |
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I'm certainly not celebrating the destruction of Notre Dame. Believe it or not, I do understand the cultural, historic and artistic significance of the building.
But don't kid yourself David - Notre Dame was, is, and will always be a religious monument, first and foremost - a monument to man's ignorance. The fact that God either ignored, or was powerless to comply, with fervent prayers to prevent the destruction of Notre Dame should tell you how much He thinks of that building. Why should we value it any more than He does?
Peter Martin wrote:
| Spending money on building or restoring something for others to enjoy in posterity seems quite an upstanding thing to do compared to, say, simple spending money on oneself. |
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May I ask, is the "enjoyment people derive in posterity" from rebuilding a burned-down Church at massive cost of far greater value than, say, if it had been invested in aiding research towards a cure for cancer?
People are certainly free to spend their money however they wish. And I'm free to lament it being spent on restoring bricks, mortar, statues and paint when it could be spent on preventing human misery.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 8
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Why do bad things happen?• God makes them happen • God lets them happen • God cannot prevent them from happening Take your pick. Not much of a Supreme Being whichever you choose.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 9
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If you set aside cultural, historic and artistic significance, then pretty much everything can be dismissed as monuments to man's ignorance.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1648
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'm fairly sure that once the historic significance, and any cultural or artistic merits, of a cure for cancer have long since passed, it will remain of incredible practical value to future generations - and it would certainly not be a monument to man's ignorance.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 11
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How many medical breakthroughs have exhausted their historical significance, would you say?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15797
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| Posted: 16 April 2019 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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May I ask, is the "enjoyment people derive in posterity" from rebuilding a burned-down Church at massive cost of far greater value than, say, if it had been invested in aiding research towards a cure for cancer?---------------------------------------------------------- I wrote the enjoyment people derive in posterity is quite upstanding compared to spending money on oneself. Investing toward a cure for cancer is not spending money on oneself.
As I began, in answer to Eric's question about whether there are better things to spend the money on: probably.
That said, one could argue though that spending the money in the concrete knowledge of what you'll get for your money might be attractive to some benefactors. 600 million euros sounds a large amount, but it is a drop in the ocean to what is already spent globally on cancer research. Can't hurt of course, but you might not notice any outcome from your spending and you're still lacking your iconic national monument that you cared deeply about.
If you have a beef with the three richest families spending their money in such a way, why not drop them an email?
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