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Topic: What coulda been, what shoulda been, what will never be AT ALL! Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 14 April 2019 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Two words: Doom Wars
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 14 April 2019 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

JB tells the story in "The Art of John Byrne" of an issue of What If he and Claremont were to have done asking the question, "What If Magneto Had Formed the X-Men?" I was disappointed when that never came about. 

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 Eric Jansen wrote:
SUPERBOY & THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES--Jim Starlin's follow-up to his brilliant issue #239 (possibly my all-time favorite single comic issue) was supposed to be a big special with twice the pages but was instead whittled down by the new editor to two regular issues, inked by the totally inappropriate Dave Hunt, prompting Starlin to call himself "Steve Apollo" and never go near the Legion again.  In hindsight, 239 and the sequel would be the type of thing to forever be reprinted in all formats (including oversized hardcover "ultimate" or "artists" editions) and possibly spawn a billion-dollar movie.  But, hey, editors have to show artists who's boss every so often, right?

That was a disappointment, I agree.  The special was cancelled due to the DC Implosion, and the material from it was not published until a year later.  Starlin says he drew it expecting Joe Rubinstein to ink, and left his pencils rougher because he knew how Rubinstein would finish the art.  But when it came time to complete the work a year later, Rubinstein was no longer available and that's why Dave Hunt was assigned.

I don't think the editing was done to "show Starlin who was boss" but rather to make it fit into two regular issues of the comic.  The most puzzling thing to me is that they took a 48-page story and wound up only using 31 of those page, writing off the other 17.  I wonder why they did not simply extend it to a third issue, which would have enabled them to print the story more or less as originally conceived.  It's bizarre that they wrote off 17 pages of Starlin art.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 April 2019 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Dave Hunt was the only bad thing about the Claremont/Byrne MT-U run. 
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Dave Hunt also finished off Curt Swan's SUPERMAN run, which was especially sad after Al Williamson's beautiful inking stint, his thick lines obscuring Swan's subtleties.  Not that I necessarily hated Hunt--he looked good on Kurt Schaffenberger.  It's all about appropriate pairings.

So, again, I blame the LEGION editor for picking Hunt, as well as dumping Starlin's 17 pages.  (And if it sat around for a year, it's not like they were rushing to meet a deadline.)  And, actually, I asked Starlin about the issue a couple of years ago at Comic-Con and I forget exactly what his answer was, but I think that's where I got the "editor showing him" impression.


Edited by Eric Jansen on 16 April 2019 at 12:35am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Dave Hunt was the only bad thing about the Claremont/Byrne MT-U run.

Maybe not the ONLY thing, but I'll admit I didn't care for his inks. In the Tigra issue (taking my cue from Dave Cockrum) I inked one page myself, to show how I wanted her hair inked. Didnt work.

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Ah. Ive long wondered who did that page. Had no idea it was you. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Now Im thinking of that MT-U Thor issue with DeZuniga inks. 

Swoon
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Yes, big fan of the DeZuniga inks on that issue.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

So many things in comics go on FOREVER with hundreds of issues (I'm thinking of the overblown muscle-bulging art in the X-MEN of the 90's, but there are plenty of other examples), and we only got ONE issue of DeZuniga inking Byrne!  You'd think some editor, some where, some time might have said "Hey, let's do that again!"
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

That issue, Marvel Team-Up #70 was the second issue of the title I'd read as a kid (the first being #44 by Mantlo and Sal Buscema) . Even as a kid I could tell there was something special about the art on Marvel Team Up #70. It was my earliest exposure to Byrne art before I even knew that there were people that made comics. The next comic I got with Byrne art was Avengers #181 and it pretty much sealed the deal on making me a lifelong comics and John Byrne fan. The Neal Adams influence was strong while still being very much John Byrne art. In my opinion, it was likely the best looking comic on the stands the month it was released.  In retrospect as a an adult having gotten and read that whole run (plus the earlier Mantlo/JB issues and many others), it's a shame DeZuniga didn't do the rest of the MTU issues.  
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

That MT-U run was the first run I ever completed of JBs by solely scouring the back issue bins. And that was when I was a teen. 

I found all of IRON FIST except for 1 and 14 and did have to rely on eBay for those years later. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Having Tony as the regular inker on MTU would have done wonders for my art. He was such a superb artist in his own right it would surely have compelled me to push even harder on my own stuff.
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Loved the art on MTU #70! I'd have thought that it would occur to somebody to have JB and DeZuniga as the art team on the regular THOR book!

I always liked Dave Hunt's inking. My first JB art was inked by him (an issue of MTU, the second half of a story with Yellowjacket and the Wasp and a villain called Equinox.). Lately, I've seen a lot of displeasure expressed about his work. I enjoyed him most over Kurt Schaffenberger and Don Newton. His stuff over Curt Swan was decent but I think I was just happy that Frank Chiaramonte wasn't doing it anymore!
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Oh, and getting back on-topic, I recall a couple of series to be written by Len Wein being announced at DC but never happening that I thought sounded intriguing: ZERO MAN and a fantasy series called PANDORA PANN.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 16 April 2019 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Looking into the mystery of Pandora Pann on-line, I found a website which listed a number of unproduced series and issues, nearly all of which sound interesting on some level or another (as solicitations tend to do.) 

While I'm fairly certain I'd have hated how dark and twisted the results would likely have been, DC's "Metropolis" line headed by Steve Gerber and Frank Miller might have produced some eye-opening moments. 

Similar in its potential to disturb and disrupt would have been Miller and Sienkiewicz's "Wonder Woman: Bondage" project. However it turned out, no doubt people would have been talking about it. 

The unproduced Rachel Summers "Phoenix" mini-series by Claremont and Leonardi would have been visually arresting, no doubt, as a Leonardi take on the world of "Days of Future Past" would have been a treat. 

Barry Windsor-Smith was said to have been working on a Thing mini-series that has been rumored to appear a couple of times here and there.

There was supposed to have been a "Superman 3-D" book done by JB in much the same vein as the Batman book he did, introducing a new villain for the Man of Steel called Tantrum.

The Uncanny X-Men/New Teen Titans #2 by Wolfman and Perez mentioned earlier upthread was to have featured the Hellfire Club and Brother Blood as its villains. That would have been something to see.

And of course, the Kirby "Prisoner" and Adam Hughes' Wonder Woman book remain treasures lost to the vagaries of fate.

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Russ Anderson
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Ever since JB mentioned that he'd floated the idea of JR Jr. taking over art chores on the FF so that he could keep writing it when he jumped over to Superman, I've tried to imagine what a five year Byrne/Romita run on that book would have looked like.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Ever since JB mentioned that he'd floated the idea of JR Jr. taking over art chores on the FF so that he could keep writing it when he jumped over to Superman, I've tried to imagine what a five year Byrne/Romita run on that book would have looked like.

As have I!!

At least we got a whisper of it on IRON MAN.

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Brian H., I have to speculate about those Wonder Woman stories; with titles such as Bondage and Prisoner, I'm wondering if those were just the WW rape scenes that have been referred to frequently. In the glum and gritty era of the 80s and 90s, it might have seemed a juicy story.

Of course, Mr. Byrne is consistently right on the topic; replace Diana with Batman and ask if the story still works. Methinks it fails hard, whether it sells well or not.
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Len Wein and Dave Gibbons were also planning to launch a spin-off title from their Green Lantern run called "The Image" featuring one of the supporting cast Clay Kendall as the main character.

Dick Giordano announced it in his "Meanwhile" column, but it never happened as they both departed GL quite suddenly.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Id never heard about JRjr on FF! Wow
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Eric, Kirby's "Prisoner" had nothing to do with WW. It was an adaptation of the Patrick MacGoohan television series. 

I agree that the Metropolis line and the Miller/Sienkiewicz "Bondage" were likely to be sexually exploitative journeys into the fetishtic history of the character, tinged with a very modern level of violence and grime. 

When Kirby came over to DC, he asked what the company's lowest selling book was, so he would not be displacing a creative team who weren't already on their way out. He was told Jimmy Olsen, and that's why Darkseid, Morgan Edge, and the Fourth World all have their origins in that title. I have occasionally wondered what would have occurred had DC replied differently and Kirby has assumed control of Wonder Woman instead. The New Gods would likely have come in literally replacing the old and causing no end of chaos for the Amazons and Paradise Island. It is an image to conjure with. 

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Thinking it over, Miller and Sienkiewicz's "Bondage" might actually have worked with Batman in place of Wonder Woman. He and Robin did get tied up an awful lot... :-)

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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 17 April 2019 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

I just saw an Artists Edition of Kirby's PRISONER pages at the book store.  Wow!
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 18 April 2019 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Brian H. - Wonder Woman involved closely with the New Gods would have been interesting indeed! And Kanigher wouldn't have needed anyone to redraw Diana's face, either.

Once, in a conversation with Frank Miller, he revealed that Jason Todd's murder was supposed to have been complicated by the Joker raping Robin before killing him. This was about 35 years ago, but I remember it because I thought A) that sounds like the Joker, and B) it would have been entirely and completely inappropriate for a comic. But it does suggest that some people were champing at the bit to be unleashed on deconstructing and ruining characters with their own stories. (I don't believe it was Miller's idea to have this... but THAT part, I do not recall right now.)
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