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David Schmidt
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 1:25am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Gutted one of my most praised stories

That last panel... One of the most powerful I read.


I didn't read "Valeria"'s return. I can't figure what's in the mind of a writer who undo such a story about ... what?... 15 years later!?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Those credits are wrong.

••

First you say Pacheco, then you say Larocca. . .

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Those credits are wrong. Valeria was created by Claremont and Salvador Larroca. She first appeared in issue 15 of the 3rd volume of FF.

*******

Just because Larocca was the artist, that doesn't automatically mean he co-created her. It could easily have been another artist that worked with Claremont on the character. 
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

First you say Pacheco, then you say Larocca. . .

_______________________________


Claremont and Larocca co-created Valeria. After they left the FF, Carlos Pacheco took over the book as plotter/artist. It was during Pacheco's run on the book that Valeria was revealed (or retconned) to be the child that Sue and Reed lost from your classic story.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Just because Larocca was the artist, that doesn't automatically mean he co-created her. It could easily have been another artist that worked with Claremont on the character.

___________________________


Nope, it was Larocca.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Valeria_von_Doom_(Earth-99315)

Edited by Rick Whiting on 18 December 2018 at 4:12pm
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I wasn't arguing who the creators actually were, I was arguing the the first artist to draw a character in a comic book isn't necessarily a creator of the character. See: Gambit. 
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I do kind of like Franklin, in that (as others have said) he reinforces that familial aspect of the FF and it's kind of unusual to have a super-hero couple with a young child. I can see how his existence is problematic for those depicting the stories though, because you do have to come up with ways to keep him out of harm's way and prevent Reed and Sue from looking like uncaring parents... and there is the issue that JB points out of drawing readers attention to the passage of time.

That said , having a choice of an FF without Franklin ever having existed and an FF in which Franklin does exist, I would choose the latter. Not really a fan of those uber-powers he is supposed to have though... I guess it's OK as a kind of looming 'this is something we'll have to deal with one day' problem, but once again, it's a kind of problematic aspect to the kid that was probably best not introduced at all rather than having it as a perpetual can to kick down the road.


Edited by Peter Martin on 18 December 2018 at 4:31pm
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I wasn't arguing who the creators actually were, I was arguing the the first artist to draw a character in a comic book isn't necessarily a creator of the character. See: Gambit.

__________________________________


OK, my bad.
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 18 December 2018 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Hard one for me, but I think I like Franklin more than I don't. The problem for me is some writers cannot write children. Franklin has said some lines that no child comes close to. Also, he's been established to have no power limits.

He's best when you can include him in a story when you want, but he's off with a sitter whenever you want.

By the way, Pacheo brought "back" Valeria after some time-warp thingy. It was a good story, though I'm not sure if the character has been handled well since.

One more note: even if you don't like the idea of Franklin, there are plenty of good stories that include him. I equate it in this way to the Pete/MJ marriage.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 19 December 2018 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I don't see what Franklin added to the FF stories. 
Showing how much of a family the FF was? I think Stan and Jack had that pretty well covered.

And I don't mind having a kid there... but that meant pulling in at least one more character as a nanny/babysitter. There are fun possibilities, but I'm not sure they're worth it... "Hey, webhead, it's Bashful Benjy here. Yeah, we need a hand at the Baxter Building tonight. Naw, it's nothin' hard.."

Franklin the Boy Hostage? Who would dare? The Frightful Four? The Wizard had been trying to kill the FF for decades - without success - so why make them angry? "Awright, Pete, ya got to three before they start callin' ya the one armed Trapster." "WIZARD! We want to see him healthy and we want to see him now if you want to continue having good health!" "I'd listen to her, Wizard. Sue doesn't take well to threats against our son."

And let alone the FF, what about their friends? "By the hoary hosts of Satannish! I will find young master Richards before all reality is threatened!"

"My X-Men, Franklin Richards is at the least a pseudo-mutant. I will use Cerebro to find him.. Cyclops, take the team to the X-Jet. We must retrieve our friends' child. "On our way, Professor!" "Indeed. It would be a most poorly planned provocation to enrage Mr. Grimm and crew."

"I get a faint tingle that he's still in the city somewhere. All I have to do is swing in bigger and bigger circles, and my ever reliable Spidey Sense will track him down in no time."

"HEIMDALL! I require your assistance! AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!"

He'd probably be the safest kid in the United States.

And I'm just not sure that one can get enough soup out of that stock for sufficiently interesting stories,
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 December 2018 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Franklin is not a “pseudo-mutant”. Altho he is the child of super powered parents, he inherited none of them. (In yet another way in which THE INCREDIBLES coincidentally parallels the FF, Jack-Jack is a hodge-podge of powers, as Franklin was in his early days.)
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 19 December 2018 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Then a couple of questions, Mr. Byrne.

1) Would Cerebro detect Franklin Richards?

2) In X-Men #140, Franklin was wearing a tunic with the damning "M" on it. Were the sentinels just generalizing because their scanners weren't good enough?

Thanks for clarifying!
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