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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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Ronald: Man, I sooo hated the Johnny/Alicia relationship.
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Wallace: Same here. It was well done, but Alicia is forever Ben's lady in my mind.
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Ben losing Alicia felt like another step in bringing him back to his original "monster" status. I was all for that.
Now if Johnny and Alicia would have ACTUALLY gotten married... that's a different story. I feel that dynamic would have changed Johnny's character too much (imho).
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Jim Petersman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012 Location: United States Posts: 625
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 2
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Ben losing Alicia - and remember he went to see her as soon as he got back to Earth to END their relationship - would have made it so that he could change back and forth from Ben Grimm to the Thing at will. Reed established that it was his fear that Alicia only loved him as the Thing that prevented him from being "cured".
Personally, I think Alicia was a much more interesting character after Ben left. Johnny was already maturing after the Tommy Hanson incident and Alicia didn't have to sit around and be reassuring all of the time. She was finally shining as a world-class artist. I'm not sure how much more anything would have changed had they gotten married.
Plus, that path would have opened the door for She-hulk to stay on, Ben to remain relevant in his own title, and still be connected to the FF.
Unless, of course, Alicia was being controlled the whole time by the Puppet Master.
In case you can't tell, I want my FFForever!
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Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ben losing Alicia felt like another step in bringing him back to his original "monster" status. I was all for that.
I would've had no problem with Ben going back to "monster" status. It's just that Johnny pretty much had his pick of anyone. Anywhere. I'm sure we've all known people like that in our real lives.
He should've stayed far, far away from her. But no...he chose to be a dick. The fact that Ben was going to end their relationship is irrelevant, as Johnny didn't know that at the time. At least, that's how I saw/see it.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30901
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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It was very realistic. Johnny didn’t know Ben was back. He had no idea Ben was even still alive. He slowly fell for Alicia not because he’s a dick, but because he’s human. They both grew together from the loss of someone special to both of them.
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Jim Petersman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012 Location: United States Posts: 625
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 5
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"He should've stayed far, far away from her. But no...he chose to be a dick. The fact that Ben was going to end their relationship is irrelevant, as Johnny didn't know that at the time. "______________________________________________
Alicia made choices here too.
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Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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It was very realistic. Johnny didn’t know Ben was back. He had no idea Ben was even still alive. He slowly fell for Alicia not because he’s a dick, but because he’s human. They both grew together from the loss of someone special to both of them.
Johnny was there when Ben elected to stay on Battleworld. He also knew he might return home some day; be it an hour, a day, a week, or a year.
To this reader, Alicia was forbidden fruit and...see below...
Alicia made choices here too.
Yep, and Johnny should've put the brakes on things from the get-go.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4530
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'm glad I missed those later Fantastic Four comics, yikes! Having main characters do things that contradict decades of proven compelling personality is not strong writing to me, more like desperation out of a lack of story ideas... when they do that in soaps they end up losing a lot of viewers, and look what happened with the Colin Baker Doctor Who where he started strangling the companion (she was a real whinger though) and even killing people casually in an unlikely costume that would make it impossible for anyone to blend in anywhere.
Well anyway...
Not sure if it counts as a forgotten moment or even a little touch, but I loved seeing the Kirby style technology when it would appear in the Fantastic Four, keeping that part of the 'world' alive helped the whole thing feel grounded somehow.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 17 October 2018 at 8:33pm
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Jim Petersman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012 Location: United States Posts: 625
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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"Yep, and Johnny should've put the brakes on things from the get-go."_________________________________________
Because Johnny owed more loyalty to his sister's husband's college friend that abandoned his girlfriend not long after she suffered a vicious attack at the Baxter building (her hair was still short)?
C'mon. 2 adults made a decision. Johnny clearly felt guilt over hurting Ben but Alicia immediately put Ben in his place (the slap during the wraith war). And Ben also made mistakes. Including continuing a relationship with Alicia that obviously couldn't be intimate. Which is why he went to her place to break up with her and let her find a fulfilling relationship. She just already had.
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Jim Petersman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012 Location: United States Posts: 625
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Posted: 17 October 2018 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | 9
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Hell, wasn't he involved with a woman on the Beyonder's planet for that matter?
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Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
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Posted: 18 October 2018 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 10
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Because Johnny owed more loyalty to his sister's husband's college friend that abandoned his girlfriend not long after she suffered a vicious attack at the Baxter building (her hair was still short)?
In all the years I'd been reading Fantastic Four, I'd never even dream of trivializing the relationship between Ben and Johnny as his sister's husband's college friend that abandoned his girlfriend. To me, they're friends, family...brothers.
All the other things you've mentioned are secondary and take a back seat to the point that Johnny should've said no.
In My Humble Opinion.
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Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
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Posted: 18 October 2018 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 11
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Hell, wasn't he involved with a woman on the Beyonder's planet for that matter?
Yes. And he cast her aside pretty quickly. I believe he even called her "a chippie," which is another term for a prostitute or promiscuous young woman.
Which she may very well have been, as she also wound up involved with Colossus.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 18 October 2018 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 12
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In Jim Shooter's splendid endeavor to break up Kitty and Peter. Because it was certain they were involved in every single type of sexual act and we couldn't have an underage girl doing that. Sheesh....
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