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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | 1
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Gambit's one of mine too. The Trench, the accent, the cards. That whole generation of characters seemed to have little thought behind them. Just "rule of cool" run a muck. Cable, Bishop, Shatterstar, Longshot....
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4556
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 2
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"Their interactions were often fun (there's a great Batman/Metal Men team-up from THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD)."
I bought one circa 1977-78 I remember and as ten year old I enjoyed it a lot, even bought another B&B, then discovered Marvel and thought they were better and didn't buy another DC for a couple more years. The Metal Men were very unique if a bit simplistic (although a little bit educational too). Metamorpho was another good simple idea, with a solid cast of characters, again maybe aimed at a lower age range than Marvel? Metamorpho didn't look like much though, they were trying a lot of different types of things back then... Deadman, The Creeper, Anthro, Hawk & Dove, Angel & The Ape, Inferior Five, Animal Man, Brother Power The Geek! :^)
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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The characters I hate have all been mentioned already. (For some reason they're all Marvel characters. I don't know why this is.)
But I'll emphasize that I really hate all the X-Men-related possible/alternate future characters. They all became "regulars." And none of them should exist.
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Christopher Frost Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2016 Location: Canada Posts: 484
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | 4
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Venom, Deadpool and Cyclops are all characters I could do without ever seeing again. The first two are just lousy characters that are inexplicably popular whilst Cyclops just never connected with me at any point during the many years I read X-Men, X-Factor, etc.
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Ray Brady Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3740
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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Rogue.
To begin with, I have an immediate dislike for characters whose powers are dependent upon other characters having powers. This is only exacerbated when dealing with mutants. Mutants are supposed to be individuals with singular genetic alterations. Their powers are a natural part of their physiology, not some external source that can be turned off or redirected like a faucet. The notion that a character like Rogue or Leech could have powers that "know" that Angel's wings are a mutant power strikes me as inherently wrong.
But Rogue doubles down on this, in that her power absorbing ability isn't even her primary power set. Most of the time, she just flies around clobbering people with Ms. Marvel's stolen powers. This kind of conflation of completely unrelated abilities was a hallmark of Claremont's run, and it used to drive me nuts. Here's a mutant who's a telepath. Oh, but now she's also a ninja! Here's a mutant who casts illusions. Oh, but she's also a Valkyrie! Here's a teleporter, who's also a demon sorceress!
This kind of unnecessary convolution is what led to the whole "secondary mutation" nonsense. Not for me, thanks.
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4830
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | 6
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Most of them are derivative or just poorly-conceived directions to take a classic character -
A-Bomb (Rick Jones) America Chavez Black Ant Captain America (as Hydra leader) Doctor Doom (as Iron Man) Emma Frost (as X-Man) Hulkling Iron Heart Magneto (as any kind of hero) Nick Fury Jr. Norman Osborn (he should have stayed dead) Red Hulk Red She-Hulk Rogue Sentry Skaar (how many Hulk knockoffs do we need?) Spider-Man (Miles Morales) Venom
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Paul Kimball Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2168
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 10:32pm | IP Logged | 7
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Carnage
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14816
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Posted: 13 August 2018 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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His design was trying WAY too hard to be cool.
———
What do people have against Steve Rogers with Michael Jackson’s Jheri curls and big shoulder pads?
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 14 August 2018 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 9
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I know it's a much smaller universe, but I like how MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE features unique characters for the most part. They'd just create a new villain or two.
I'm not saying they didn't de-unique - wasn't there a character called He-Ro at one point? - but for the most part, it seems like there are enough unique characters to be fun.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 14 August 2018 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 10
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One of the characters Robert mentions has me curious: Where was Hulkling in the midst of all that Hulks-Smashing-Hulks-Smashing-Hulks-Smashing-Hulks nonsense a few years ago? It's as if Marvel's short-term memory didn't go back far enough to recall a few years before that when the Young Avengers was the big push. Maybe he was there, but I don't recall seeing him.
Paul, good call on Carnage. Not only is he a slavering, giggling serial killer, he's a rip-off version of a derivative copy. He's three Nineties cliches stacked on top of one another. And since he clicked with fans, we then got Shriek and who knows how many others just like him.
Ray, your observation on the weird dualities in the X-Men is well-taken. Claremont had a complete inability to ever say "no" to any way open to him to celebrate his female characters' innate, warrior savvy and indomitable spirits. As long as we're in Japan, we'll take this opportunity to show that Betsy is hardly a fragile English rose. She is, in fact, tough enough, hard enough, clever enough, and spirited enough to be... a ninja! For she has the heart of a Warrior Born! As long as we're in Asgard, we'll take this opportunity to show that Danielle is hardly a frightened young girl. She is, in fact, tough enough, hard enough, clever enough, and spirited enough to be... a Valkyrie! For she has the heart of a Warrior Born! As long as we're in a demonic hell-dimension, we'll take this opportunity to show that Illyana is hardly an innocent small child. She is, in fact, tough enough, hard enough, clever enough, and spirited enough to be... the Queen of Limbo! For she has the heart of a Warrior Born!
It really did lead to the X-Men becoming a boatload on nonsensical concepts all tripping over themselves to get on-panel. And since no plotline was ever closed, none of it ever went away.
Rebecca, I liked your comment that the Beyonder was just a retread Korvac. That had not occurred to me, yet it is dead-on.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132338
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Posted: 14 August 2018 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 11
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Most of Marvel has long since forgotten how mutants work. Chris muddied the waters a lot, making the term almost generic for "superhero". Even to the point that while I was doing FF I was tld tgey were some folk's "favorite mutants".(In his time on X-MEN Roy Thomas had established that characters whose powers came from outside effects, like the FF and Spider-Man, were "non-mutant variants" according to Xavier. Works for me.)
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 14 August 2018 at 9:28am | IP Logged | 12
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Joe Z. hit right to the heart of this topic with his observation (oft repeated): "...there are no bad characters. Just bad writing."
Robbie, to mix metaphors - if you get tired, I'm right here in the corner - tag off! :D
Who do I genuinely dislike? Well, there are too many new characters I'm sure that I hate, save that I haven't read them; they're too new and I don't collect many new books at all any more. But a short list...
The Punisher. A character created with, seemingly, the excuse of being a villain and killing other villains. A cathartic character, perhaps, but his whole theme is murdering people. And I think he could be fixed pretty easily, with one paradigm shift. Certainly, get rid of the guns; but recognize that he's basically he's Batman with a .45. I wouldn't mind him as an anti-hero who's in a darker world than Batman's. Make him dark, and that's fine; he's in a very dark place. But arrest these drug dealers etc., and make them scared of going back to their ways because even when they get out of jail... the Punisher is still waiting.
Lobo: I've not read a lot of Lobo, but enough to know that it's another "ordinary guy" cathartic character - bouny hunter, drinks, smokes, rides a motorcycle, kills indiscriminately. I cannot understand why the Green Lanterns, or Superman, would not have just taken him down and put him in Takron-Galtos. Just a one-shot character with too many bullets. :)
New Luthor and New Brainiac: In the early 80s, DC decided that Luthor and Brainiac weren't sufficiently villainous, and needed to be made worse. So in a giant size issue of Action Comics, Luthor destroyed his "other home" of Lexor and decided that Superman caused it and must be killed ('cause making him bald wasn't a good enough reason any more.) Brainiac was transformed into a completely robotic form that had to kill and capture because... well, it was never very clear. Reading these, the same thought occurred to me: "That's a shame. Now Superman has to see that these enemies are both destroyed." Maybe someone wanted a Joker-level villain for Superman, but I hated both of those characters.
Rogue - but the one in the X-Men movies. Okay, I might not like her so much in the comics, but with the Kree powers, she's a useful character. In the movies? She's Rogue the girl hostage. She serves almost no useful purpose. You say, "But she can steal a villain's powers!" Really? At MELEE range? Is that going to do a lot of good against Sabretooth or the Juggernaut? Had they modified her a little bit and let her do power drains at range, or even let her act as a living Cerebro ("Cyclops, I think that there's somebody in the Statue of Liberty with powers... it kinda feels like Mystique!"), I could like her better.
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