Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 7 Next >>
Topic: Using Mainstream Comics As Political and Social Commentary Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
Posted: 16 May 2018 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Steven, I found the first three issues of
Waid's current run to be great good old
fashioned comic books. The next three
issues where Rogers is in the future is
pretty overt. I don't have issue in front
of me, but Bruce Banner says something, in
issue 700, that removed doubt as to
whether or not he was trying to be
political.

Jabari, I agree with you that what is on
that tape is repugnant. When I said he can
go too far which hurts the credibility of
his message, this is what I was talking
about. But context can be important. This
tape is a recording of something called a
"dark roast". It is intended to be
humorous satire making fun of people using
filthy, dark humor. It doesn't make it
right, or any less repugnant, but it is
one man's very poor attempt at being
funny. I also think, this type of humor
playing to the lowest common denominator
has a habit of stirring a pot, causing a
few of his hardcore fans to say and do
stupid damaging things. Still, to my
knowledge, he hasn't broken the law.

The response by some in the industry has
been, "You think this is so easy, you
write and produce a book!"So, he is. Now,
it's not illegal for a shop to say,"We're
not going to carry it." They are perfectly
within their right to do so. But, again,
just from the outside looking in, calling
Antartic Press and them backing out of a
contract after that phonecall, or calls
were placed...that might be illegal.

Edited by Stephen Churay on 16 May 2018 at 9:09pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14813
Posted: 16 May 2018 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply


 QUOTE:
This  tape is a recording of something called a  "dark roast".

A roast is done with the consent of the roastee. Talking shit about people is just being an asshole. 


 QUOTE:
But, again,  just from the outside looking in, calling  Antartic Press and them backing out of a  contract after that phonecall, or calls  were placed...that might be illegal.

Publishers drop controversial authors all the time. The idea that Waid “bullied” a publisher into dropping a book through a single phone call is risible and vastly overestimates the power that he wields.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 17 May 2018 at 2:09am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

All this attention for Meyer's fannish-looking comic project is probably going to make him a millionaire. And maybe sue the pants off Mark Waid. This is why folks should avoid feeding trolls! 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 17 May 2018 at 2:10am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

When he first started posting videos, I would agree with him on certain points on many Marvel comics: bad art, bad characterization, fan fiction style stories (all, of course, my opinion) but he started getting petty in his criticism*. Some of his response was a result of some thin-skinned pros but he started playing "I can sink lower than you" and at that point, he lost me. His valid points were now being overshadowed by the fact that he's not a very nice guy. 

He wasn't breaking the law but a lot of his accusations were rumor and innuendo. Does he have proof that Jordan White has an unhealthy obsession with Heather Antos? Does he know for sure that Mark Waid pulled strings for a "work girlfriend"? Or is it speculation because he doesn't like how they write and draw comics? Mark Waid and Mags Visaggio use very aggressive language in their social media like they're trained fighters (like much of social media, I question if any of these people have ever been in a real fight because maybe they wouldn't be so keen to look for one). Dan Slott and Nick Spencer do not respond well to people who question their work online but once again, critique Slott's Spider-Man not his appearance. If Spencer wants to be angry about people voting for Trump instead of Hillary but you don't like his Captain America, focus on the latter not the former.  


*I dislike a lot of dialogue in Marvel comics today because it is very fan fiction-y to me. Things like a character in the X-Men saying "To me, my X-Men" or someone saying to a member of the X-Men "Isn't dying your thing?" take me out of the story! It's too "inside baseball" for me. I know we all read the same comics but I don't expect Kitty to have a copy of X-Men #1 to know that Professor X said that. I dislike the fact that everyone seems to know everyone else's adventures as if they all discussed them over coffee "Hey She-Hulk, remember that time we fought in Secret Wars? Good times..."
Back to Top profile | search
 
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Shawn I think you nailed it. Although I
wouldn't use the videos to determine what
type of person he is. I think "Zack" is a
bit of a persona. Mostly him, but still a
persona playing to a crowd. Sadly a good
bit of which are engaged with his videos
using the same mentality that kept people
entertained by Jerry Springer. I think in
the beginning he made videos because the
current state of mainstream comics upset
him, and he found an audience. But,
YouTube can make you money. Now I think
there is a certain amount of his videos
geared more towards entertaining.

========
All this attention for Meyer's fannish-
looking comic project is probably going to
make him a millionaire. And maybe sue the
pants off Mark Waid. This is why folks
should avoid feeding trolls!
......
Funny thing, I never knew this gut or any
of the others even existed until Mark Waid
through a tantrum about him in November.
It was mentioned that Meyer may attend a
convention Waid was signing at and he went
crazy on twitter. Waid taking this guy on
is what brought the crowd funded comic to
my news feed.


To be completely open, I went and reserved
a copy of his crowdfunded book. After it
making such a stink, I wanted to read it.
If it's some form of conservative
manifesto I'll let you guys know. Just
because I am conservative doesn't mean I
want to read about it in my comics. I read
comics to get away from real world issues,
not to be put in the middle of them. If I
like it I'll tell you. If it's garbage,
I'll tell you.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jabari Lamar
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 October 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 351
Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I've known of Richard C. Meyer for at least 8 years now. Under the name "MeyerAustin" he was an active and well-known comic-book message board participant. Particularly he liked popping up on predominantly liberal forums, like Gail Simone's on CBR and then later the 606 forum, stirring up trouble, and then running back to Conservative forums like Chuck Dixon's to whine about how all the intolerant liberals were picking on him. He was the same then as he is now, just with a bigger platform. "Dark humor" MY ASS. This is who he is.

I only heard of the D&C channel and Patreon, and his involvement with it, a few months ago. When I did take a brief look at it, I saw that he'd posted an 11-page fan-fiction comic where RiRi Williams has succeeded in ruining Tony Stark's life, stealing his company, and driving him to suicide, by falsely accusing him of rape (as women constantly do, y'know). That told me all I needed to know.

If he wants to crowdfund his own comics, well good for him. As the article I posted said, getting 4000 and then 6500 pledgers IS impressive. Good for him, I take nothing away from that accomplishment. And it shows that those who do want to read it, can get it. But no publisher is obligated to pick it up.. And he can't whine like a baby when a publisher looks at Meyers own past public statements and decides that they don't want to be in business with him, especially when that's exactly what Meyer and his supporters did to Aubrey Sitterson.

Likewise, no store is obligated to stock the book, although I do think those who said that they wouldn't order it even if a customer asked for it, are not doing good business. But that's their problem.

And "politics" in entertainment are not inherently good or bad. Some may look to entertainment, be it comics or movies or music, whatever, to "get away from the real world", while others make like it when they're entertainment tackles real-world issues. To me it depends on the situation and how its handled. As I said yesterday over on the TV forum I'm a big fan of Last Man Standing and am glad it's returning, because, to me, the show is just funny. I don't have to agree with the "Mike Baxter's" political views, any more than I agreed with how "Barney Stinson" treated women on How I Met Your Mother. The characters and the shows were still funny to me.

On the other hand, I was never a fan of the Roseanne show in the past, so I have no interest in watching it now. It has nothing to do with her and her character's politics.



Edited by Jabari Lamar on 17 May 2018 at 4:00pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
Posted: 17 May 2018 at 10:32pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Jabari, I'm not disagreeing with you about
Meyer. I simply wanted to be fair and give
his statements a little context, and even
after that, I called what he did
repugnant.

I agree, that even if I think there is
something in what he says to be true,
there is too much shock jock, Jerry
Springer mentality to treat the messenger
as legitimate. This for me isn't a "Hey,
who wants to get on this guy's bandwagon".
I'm just researching how fandom got so
toxic, and is there any truth or even
solid ground for these people to soap box
on. I agree, it's toxic. I got the book to
see if he can back up his rhetoric. Maybe
he can. Maybe he can't. I'm guessing it's
going to read like a very 90's thinly
plotted Image comic.

As to Waid's involvement getting the book
canceled...I mentioned him because he is
the only one I can factually prove called
the publisher. Some reports say that the
publisher got flooded with calls from the
group of store owners that met on
Facebook. Assuming that's not true, Waid
doesn't have to threaten. He is a third
party who directly contacted the
publisher. I have to believe that a
publisher would do it's due diligence
before offering someone like Meyer a
publishing deal. Then they pulled the
deal. What changed? Waid's call came in
the middle. Was it the loan deciding
factor? Was it a factor at all? I don't
know, as I said, it looks illegal, but the
truth is, the Federal Trade Commission
will determine that. Is the Sitterson the
same thing. Yes and no.

I got no defense for Sitterson. If his
Twitter comments were going to upset
anyone, it was going to be the readers of
the book he was writing. Please, please
inform me further, but I could find no
harassment of him until he made stupid
comments about 9/11 on Twitter. When asked
about it he doubled down and profest to
being a socialist. A man's opinions and
beliefs are his own but he was writing a
G.I.Joe: A Real American Hero comic.
That's never going to go well.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I've watched dozens of Meyer's videos. He doesn't seem to be a racist or have sexist / homophobic / transphobic ideas. But he quite clearly hates active liberalism in comics and goes after specific pros with a great deal of venom. I'm neutral about the so called "SJW" creators. If their books don't make any money, sooner or later publishers will have to stop hiring them or go bankrupt. And if they do make money for their publishers, good for them. Comics is not really my hobby anymore anyways.

My own reservation about Meyer is that he is from that group of readers who look to early 90's Marvel, early Image, and early Quesada-Marvel as how comics should be. He also loves 80's Marvel, but a look at his work reveals his heart is in the latter stuff. I happen to think that stuff is rotten to the core, so I guess I'm an even more conservative fan than he is. 


Edited by Joe Zhang on 18 May 2018 at 4:18am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
Posted: 18 May 2018 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Just because I am conservative doesn't mean I 
want to read about it in my comics. I read 
comics to get away from real world issues

Same here, Stephen. I'm a Christian who is registered Republican. I feel I'm more Libertarian because I'm also pro-choice (my wife and I are pro- life personally but don't want our will forced on others), I have no problem with gay marriage and I don't feel that everyone has to believe what I believe. And I appreciate a well told story that offers me a different perspective. A good storyteller doesn't need to hit you over the head with a message. Unfortunately, those types of creators are few and far between in comics today because, like many other forms of media, they force you to take a side. I find that every day life is much different than life that is lived on Twitter. Regular people tend to find ways to get along. Meyer feels that every comic book should be tailored to his tastes (shapely woman, manly men) but you and I both know that if every comic was the same, we'd lose interest real quick.

I'm a big fan of Last Man Standing and am glad it's returning, because, to me, the show is just funny.

Judging a show on enjoyment so much more rewarding than thinking about the message behind it for me. Fox News tries to prop up those shows as conservative shows but if they're entertaining and funny to people, who cares what their politics are?

My own reservation about Meyer is that he is from that group of readers who look to early 90's Marvel, early Image, and early Quesada-Marvel as how comics should be.

Joe, I couldn't quite put my finger on how I viewed his tastes in comics but that pretty much nails it. I feel that, while sales were high in the early 90's (speculator inflated sales), we lost a lot of diversity that was established in the 70's and 80's at Marvel. Luke Cage had been pretty much pushed aside at the end of Power Man and Iron Fist, Monica Rambeau Captain Marvel had been forgotten about just to name two characters. And diversity in art had become a thing of the past (I know Marvel always had the Romita model "House Style" but tell me how much JB, Simonson, and JRjr's art looked alike and I will disagree).


Edited by Shawn Kane on 18 May 2018 at 6:40am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1929
Posted: 18 May 2018 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

> (my wife and I are pro- life personally but don't want our will forced on others)

*****

If you're going to be pro-life, that's the way to do it. I'm not of that mindset, but I really don't think men should have a say in the rules for things that they can't experience.

This Meyer guy seems like a real piece of shit who I will add to my "travel back in time and stop" list.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
Posted: 18 May 2018 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Basically, if my wife were to choose to have an abortion, I wouldn't protest. She just happens to be pro-life as well.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1929
Posted: 18 May 2018 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Makes sense. That's internally consistent and her right.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 

<< Prev Page of 7 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login