Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 4 Next >>
Topic: The Hypersexualization of Women in Comics Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 928
Posted: 11 September 2017 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Forget sexuality--which of those two Carol Danvers(es) looks more heroic?

And which would be more likely to be seen in a Renaissance painting or classic sculpture?  Or is fine art sexist too?


Edited by Eric Jansen on 11 September 2017 at 7:28pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Trevor Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2836
Posted: 12 September 2017 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yeah, I had a the same thought there Eric. Talk about
conflicted.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9784
Posted: 12 September 2017 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

If only people had followed Dave Cockrum's model...

Heroic, sexy, nothing "hyper" in any way.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2413
Posted: 12 September 2017 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

When did David Bowie become the model for Carol Danvers?!?  <blecch>
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
David Schmidt
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 July 2017
Location: France
Posts: 32
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I dare to think Carole Danvers is on the left...
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108166
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I dare to think Carole Danvers is on the left...

Hard to say, since neither are wearing any version of her costume.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1398
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

>>I dare to think Carole Danvers is on the left...<<

I was hoping that myself, but if you look here,  (you can preview some of the interiors)...and ah, yep: Wandering toward androgynous. 
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Bryan Eacret
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 February 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 526
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The art in the preview I looked at was not something I want to see when I read a comic.
Also, I clicked a preview and a full page was not displayed all at once.  A portion of the page would be displayed showing dialog and a bit of art on the page. When I clicked next page it would shift and zoom to the next area of dialog on the page. The preview was for a full page spread with different dialog on the page. Hope I am being clear. It was not something that made me want to keep reading the book, even if I liked what I was looking at. 
Is this how digital comics usually work? 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1619
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Maybe it's because my wife has fairly short hair but Imo it takes a lot more
than short hair to be androgynous. My personal experience is a lot of people
from the military including women tend towards shorter haircuts so this
doesn't seem all that strange to me.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11805
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Its not just the hair. Breasts gone. 


Hips gone. 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
David Spurlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 268
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Dare I say, is this Marvel's poor attempt at diversity? Taking a long established character and making her gay? I certainly hope it's not because she sports a short cropped hair style now. Just because a woman has short hair doesn't mean she's a lesbian. 
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 472
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I don't think she's a lesbian, it's just very poor artwork.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Drew Spence
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 79
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

So if the hyper-sexualized female is supposed to attract horny teen boys, what kind of character would you draw/create to attract lesbians?

Not BE a lesbian, but be attractive to lesbians?
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108166
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

So if the hyper-sexualized female is supposed to attract horny teen boys, what kind of character would you draw/create to attract lesbians?

Not BE a lesbian, but be attractive to lesbians?

I may be totally off track, here, but I assume Lesbians would be attracted to more or less the same things heterosexual males find attractive.

The big-boobed, broken-backed females we see in comics are more about the maturity of the intended audience, not the sexual orientation.

(One of the first fan drawings I saw of Alpha Flight had Marina with gigantic knockers. Not at all the character. And look quickly DC converted Cassie Sandsmark into jail bait.)

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108166
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

That first image, up there...... Is she sneaking up on a transparent figure, or is someone casting a shadow with glowing eyes?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Drew Spence
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 79
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I feel uncomfortable discussing this to this degree, but many couples are comprised of one girly girl and the butch-half...

Two CUTE girlie-girls together is the stuff of male fantasies.
So a girl who is not out of the closet- still looks girlie girl or the undercover woman wearing men's clothes.
Men's haircuts etc...
True these are stereotypes...but yeah...

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5620
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I understand the haircut.
Danvers is a Captain.
She's CAPTAIN Marvel now, not MS. Marvel.
It's a military thing. If you've read the books, you'd see that she's the
leader of the charge in space the way Captain America is on Earth.
I think there's still a woman under that uniform.
I love love love women with short hair. Aurora!? Loved it.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 928
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

That first image, up there...... Is she sneaking up on a transparent figure, or is someone casting a shadow with glowing eyes?

***

It's a shadow...but the villain has two holes in his head for the light to go through?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11805
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

There are quite a few fans upset with Marvel's recent editorial tilt to the Far Left. I'm not one of them; Marvel can do whatever they want with their hollow shell of a comics company. I'm just astonished at how self-destructive they have become. 

Carol Danvers has never been a very popular character. It's probably the super-sexy look that Dave Cockrum invented for Ms. Marvel that saved the character from being forgotten. If Marvel wants to sell a Carol Danvers book, they have to get everyone on board. Cheesecake fans, feminists, anybody. But they go and portray her in a way that's sure to repulse most of the character's followers. And Captain Marvel is a book Marvel delivers less than 20,000 copies to stores, and probably sells even less. Just to get a nod of approval from the Left? Sheer madness.


Edited by Joe Zhang on 14 September 2017 at 7:19pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 15330
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I dig Marvel's Captain Marvel's (ha) new look when drawn by certain
artists. I'm also one of the few people who like her original uniform
more than the black one.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 928
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

That's a good point, Joe Zhang.  Quite possibly the only reason that the Ms. Marvel character has had any long-lasting fan base is because Dave Cockrum gave her one of the very best costumes in comics history!  But that character is gone now--the classic cool blonde Ms. Marvel in the awesome costume is gone, probably forever.

Whether you hate her or love her, the new female Captain Marvel is practically a new character.  When she first premiered, the new Captain had one of the WORST costumes!  Thanks goodness they got rid of that horrible helmet.  I still don't love it, and I will forever miss the Cockrum version, but the new version CAN be presented pretty nicely.  And for proof that she's not always androgynous--

And for the movie, Bree Larson certainly isn't androgynous either, so that's something.


Edited by Eric Jansen on 14 September 2017 at 8:02pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11264
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Yeah, there are plenty of examples of Captain Marvel looking feminine with her new uniform and haircut. Joe's examples are like cherrypicking old X-Force panels to prove Marvel doesn't like feet. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 928
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Well, I do wonder (and I forgot to mention this when I posted the statue pic) if Marvel is marketing the "sexy" statues to a certain audience (perhaps older, more well-off, male fans with more disposable income) while the comics are aimed at a different audience (younger, progressive, female and/or "diverse").

Which goes to show yet another example of a fractured Marvel.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11264
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Well, I do wonder (and I forgot to mention this when I posted the statue pic) if Marvel is marketing the "sexy" statues to a certain audience (perhaps older, more well-off, male fans with more disposable income) while the comics are aimed at a different audience (younger, progressive, female and/or "diverse"). 

------

From my experience, one of the more popular artists among female comic fans is Adam Hughes, who does cheesecake. That tells me the  issue isn't really whether females are drawn "sexy", but whether they are objectified, because Hughes knows how to draw sexy women without being gross about it. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11805
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I think Captain Marvel's androgenous look is from her latest comics. I can't be sure though, I don't read the books, but that's what they say.

Edited by Joe Zhang on 14 September 2017 at 9:51pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 4 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login