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John Wickett
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Posted: 09 September 2020 at 11:17pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Hey Dave,

The biggest reversal so far is on fracking.  Biden said unequivocally that he would ban it.  After losing ground in PA and MN, he now says he won't ban it.  

Biden was nebulous on defunding police.  He said he wouldn't defund, but he would "re-direct some police funding to other programs."  Then the riots became an issue for Dems and now he says he is going to increase funding to law enforcement.  

Biden is also now promising a middle class tax cut, which will necessarily impact spending on some of the progressive programs in his platform (although nobody actually believes there will be a Biden tax cut).

As to your second question, I didn't take it as snarky.  It was hilarious, but you raise a good point- Progressives have always dealt with this, so its fair to ask why this year is different.  And in some ways it isn't.  Progressives didn't come out in large numbers to support Clinton.  

However, I would argue they are more energized than ever as a result of the successes they've enjoyed during the last few years.  Young progressive candidates are beating entrenched establishment candidates in Dem primaries, their priorities are getting more attention in Congress, and their views are gaining more traction than ever among the public.  Because of that, a betrayal by the party would be all the more deflating to them.   
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 1:51am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I think progressives are more pragmatic than you give them credit for. Perhaps not in 2016, but certainly much more so in 2020.  

I also think you lean too hard into progressives as being the "important base" of the Democratic party.  Listen, in elections this tight they're all fought on the margins.  So, yes, "progressives" are important.  But they aren't the be all/end all to the party nor do I think them so dogmatic as to expect every wish to be granted otherwise they'll bail.  

Much more than 2016, I see Democrats realizing that a second Trump term is an existential threat to not only rule by one party, but the entire Democracy.  I have much more optimism than you do that our divisions will unite us rather than divide us. Personally?  I'd vote for a shoe, a literal, actual, worn-on-the-foot shoe than cast a vote for Trump. And I get that same feeling from the myriad of Democrats in our coalition.  

I'm nervous about 2020 in a way that I wasn't in 2016 and I honestly think that's a good thing.  Outline how you think we'll lose all you want, but I don't think you're really listening. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 3:22am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Hey John!  24 posts in since July 2016 and the only discussions you've contributed to are political in nature.  Got anything else to say about movies, television, music or, I dunno, John Byrne?  Just asking.  
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John Wickett
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Matt, I hope you're right. I'm a conservative Republican, but I think its in our best interests for us to have a healthy and robust Democratic party.  The two-party system is one of the things that has made American democracy stable for most of our history, because having only two parties ensures we have what political scientists refer to as broad cross-cutting cleavages. 

Historically democracies that have more political parties with narrower coalitions and more narrowly focused platforms are inherently unstable.

I think progressives are the biggest existential threat; not because I disagree with them (which I do), but because I see them having the potential to shatter the Democratic party, which would either move us in the direction of one party rule for a long period of time, or destabilize our democracy by eroding the two party system.

I think Trump contributes to the problem by using caustic and divisive rhetoric, but I think biased media on both sides are exacerbating the problem more than Trump or Dem leaders.

And then there's us.  Almost everyone I know says they would like to see a return to civil discourse, but that desire is not reflected in most of our social media or in the way I often hear us speak to each other about politics.  

I'd love to spend more time talking about comics, but at any given time it seems like the topics for the last day only have one or two threads about comics.  After reading what people are posting about, comics just seam trivial, and I feel drained of my enthusiasm to discuss them- which is a bummer, because I have loved comics since I was 3 or 4 years old in the early 70s.  
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The computer simulations of the election at https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/ had Trump with as high as a 32% chance of winning two weeks ago.  The model makers were surprised right from the start at the 90 day mark that he had a 28% chance of winning at that time.  After digging into the model, they found the only reason Trump had that high a chance was just that there was still so much time to move the dial; they reset the deadline to zero days and Trump only had a 10% chance off winning.  He is now down to 24%, and shrinking.  Trump has not moved the polls at all in his favour, and he is running out of runway.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

John: I think Trump contributes to the problem by using caustic and divisive rhetoric, but I think biased media on both sides are exacerbating the problem more than Trump or Dem leaders.


**
I am astonished that this thought can be written in this tone. The tone is appealingly mild. The content is completely detached from reality.

Trump has no policies.

He does not embody any conservative values.

His presidential campaign has no platform.

He is abandoned by record numbers of team-workers who uniformly report that Trump is an attention-lacking, shallow-thinking, impulsive and corrupt man with no agenda other than making life better for himself.

His cabinet is filled with z-list, inexperienced people who are often there to dismantle or exploit the department they lead.

These are not media inventions, these are facts.

How can anything under the watch of this administration be blamed on "biased media?"
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

He is now down to 24%, and shrinking.  Trump has not moved the polls at all in his favour, and he is running out of runway.


That's The Washington Post on October 24, 2016.

From the article:

"The election is in 15 days. And the electoral map just keeps looking grimmer and grimmer for Donald Trump. We are making three changes to The Fix map this week, all favoring Hillary Clinton."

The Economist, same date:


"Polls from past presidential elections do not bode well for Mr. Trump"

CNN, July 2015:



Note the smug overall tone.

Denial and wishful thinking are powerful forces indeed, and by now folks should've smartened up on these kinds of "expert analyses".

But here we are now. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it and all that.




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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Rodrigo, this year, unlike in 2016, Biden has done something Hilary never could do:  Maintain 50% or higher in the polls.  Hilary only hit that number once and that was in July of '16.  I'm not saying that it's a given that Biden wins, BUT this is a different election.  538.com learned from its mistakes in its data compilation in figuring out the races.  

The key is that people vote!   Do not assume anything.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The 2016 election was stolen by a thousand scumbag tricks like provisional balloting old black women who had never had an issue voting before based on some undotted i or crossed t on some piece of ID she'd been newly forced to get... minimal staffing for poll places leading to hours long wait times only in those poor, ethnic or democratically leaning areas... polling places that were moved multiple times before the vote date... bizarre redistricting configurations to maximize the Republican vote and disperse Democratic votes... all the Russian 'help' Trump coordinated with... National Enquirer having doctored photos making Hillary look deathly ill on all the supermarket checkout stands across the U.S. on the week of voting... areas where they might have multiple stations playing and replaying modern lord Haw-Haw Rush Limbaugh and other b.s. half-truth outrage manufacturing shows, and one NPR affiliate with actual if boring information if they were lucky... people, especially students, simply purged from voter rolls in many Republican controlled states (one Governor in a swing state was openly crowing about how it would hand his state to their party)... people like DeJoy funneling excess and illegal campaign financing through their employees and repaying them later... multiple instances of workers saying they were warned by owners they would be known and punished if they didn't vote Trump... robocalls giving people phoney poll locations.

Nothing is doomed to be repeated if the U.S. started punishing and got a handle on ensuring fair and intimidation-free elections. This one looks to be at the level of a third-world banana republic thanks entirely to the one party and Trump doing things another person in a high office would be removed for. He made so much of a squawk in 2016 that people sat on some of the Russian meddling info (look at all the info that came out and the people connected to Trump indicted later with his party in total control for those two years) for fear it could look like they were trying to influence the vote. There were so many half-truths and lies it was a full time job for someone with the time to keep close to up on it never mind someone working, and some 'news' sources didn't report such corrections (in many countries a Brietbart, or Sky and Fox news channels could not legally exist, nor in the U.S. before the FCC regulations were critically weakened and much communications oversight packed up during Bush Jr.s terms).

Why not learn this, because what can anyone learn from a bunch of angry perpetually outraged culture warriors who don't like librul elites and 'so-called' experts lecturing them? They are 'entitled' to stupidity as equal to being truthful or logical? That Hillary had a lust for power in her eyes? Obama wanted to steal their guns and ban the Bible?

Biden is talking about jobs, Hillary did too, but if promises of some kind of protected career as a coal miner appeals... I just don't know or recognize that planet.

As Trump reportedly envied Kim Jung-Un being addressed as 'excellency' everyone should from now on address him that way and applaud everything he does no matter how little. I honestly can't think of anything less American than someone who would want that though. Continuing to point out all the ways this man and people with him are fubar is an act of hope because if you lose that there really is nothing but chaos. The best thing that can happen to a republican party now is it gets close to wiped out and something functional and sane can take it's place, and then maybe the Democratic party will have to go through some of the same or be scared straight.

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 10 September 2020 at 7:49pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 Kevin Brown wrote:
The key is that people vote!   Do not assume anything.

And the other key is that all the votes get counted.  Which sadly is not a given.


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 10 September 2020 at 8:00pm
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Nothing is doomed to be repeated if the U.S. started punishing and got a handle on ensuring fair and intimidation-free elections. This one looks to be at the level of a third-world banana republic thanks entirely to the one party and Trump doing things another person in a high office would be removed for.

Third World Banana Republicer's take here (we don't actually have bananas here but I'll take it anyway lol): the "blame" is not entirely in one party, not in the slightest. The US voters had elected Obama twice, the second one by a landslide. How did this catastrophe happen then, on the Democrats' watch? Same country, same voters.

I was in the US actually for a few weeks in 2016. The "vibe" I got was that Trump was going to win. Same vibe I'm getting now from afar. "Expert Analyses" and all. As I said numerous times in this thread, you need to have a candidate people are excited to vote for. Hillary wasn't it, and Biden even less so. 

Obama was. Personality, charisma and momentum go much further than progressive/conservative, "extreme progressive" (no such thing in the US), moderate, center, etc. 

People don't think like that, cable news does. 

538.com learned from its mistakes in its data compilation in figuring out the races.  

Come on now.

The key is that people vote!   Do not assume anything.

Definite agree on that. But I'm not seeing a lot of action from the Democratic Party. And obviously, I really, really, hope I'm wrong in my pessimistic view.




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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 11 September 2020 at 1:56am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Rebecca,

If "scumbag tricks" being played were the standard for elections being "stolen" than every election in the history of the world has been stolen.

Marc
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