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Darren De Vouge
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 December 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3586
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 1
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I doubt the U.S. founding fathers could have envisioned a time when "arms" would fire 600 rounds a minute and be used to slaughter school children.
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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 2
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I'm not in favor of prohibition here either - rather, licensing and regulation. Stricter than we have now. Assault weapons are pathetically easy to obtain.
It's not a slippery slope if you have to get a background check and wait awhile before purchasing your human killing machine. It's not a slippery slope if weapons of mass evisceration cannot be purchased easily by you and me.
Gun shows should not enjoy exemptions, for example. We need to tighten the reins severely. If there are fewer assault weapons for sale, there will be fewer on the street and fewer in the hands of legal gunowners who use them to go Postal.
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Dave B Stewart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 429
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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If I'm not mistaken, the aforementioned gentlemen argued for "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Are you a member of a militia? I ask this in all seriousness with no sarcasm?
Edited by Dave B Stewart on 02 October 2006 at 5:45pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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Fascinating to see all the tired old arguments trotted out again. "The Founding Fathers were smart guys!" "The bad guys will still get guns!" "More people die in car accidents."Let me say, as calmly as I can, that all of you who think private ownership of guns is a good thing are seriously fucked in the head. Take a look at the rest of the world, some time. Take a look at a "violent" like Japan, where private gun ownerships is not allowed. Deaths by handgun in a single year: 12. Deaths by handgun in this country, same year, 25,000. How many more children have to die before you morons grow up?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 5
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If I'm not mistaken, the aforementioned gentlemen argued for "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Are you a member of a militia? I ask this in all seriousness with no sarcasm?*** There is a more important clause than the militia, even more often ignored. The Second Amendment is "time sensitive". It allows for the private ownership of guns so long as said militia is "necessary to the security of a free state". How long has it been since that was the case? Two hundred years? "Gotta have me some guns! The injuns might attack!"
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Jon Godson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 January 2005
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 6
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To assume that the government will always be over the people and that
Americans will always live in freedom is absurd.
The Great Depression threw democracies around the world into extremists
totalitarian governments. There is no reason to think that another such
economic disaster (or any other type of disaster) could cause a similiar
change in America. But a people who are armed will never be under the
foot of such a government.
Let me say, as calmly as I can, that anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously
fucked in the head and is a moron who needs to grow up.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 7
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If we could put the repeal of the Second Amendment up to a referendum, it would fail miserably. I'm not sure how I'd vote on it, to be honest.
Would you vote for a repeal, JB? Anybody else can give their answer, but I'd especially like to see John's, as well.
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Dave B Stewart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 429
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 8
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I referred to the well regulated militia only due to an individual either being a member of a militia or not. Black and white.
Edited by Dave B Stewart on 02 October 2006 at 5:50pm
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 9
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"Fact is, we live in a society where guns exist."
That's the only point I agree with. If we were to ban all consumer guns
today, there would be a huge black market tomorrow. I think it would be
reasonable to demand that people who own guns have a constructive use
for them. For example hunting (so long as the hunting isn't done with a
bazooka.) If people want to collect guns, let them buy
plastic replicas. If they want to shoot guns, make them keep the guns at
their gun-clubs and nowhere else.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 02 October 2006 at 5:54pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 10
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Would you vote for a repeal, JB?
****
In a nanosecond.
You may be forgetting that I have lived in two countries, England and Canada, which have nothing like the Second Amendment. In England, even the police don't carry guns. So according to the Great Minds working in this thread, the streets should run with blood in both nations. Oddly, their gun-fatality rates combined are lower than ours. How can this possibly be?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | 11
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That's the only point I agree with. If we were to ban all consumer guns today, there would be a huge black market tomorrow.*** Easily solved. There is much worry about how the "bad guys" will be able to get guns no matter what the Law does. Well, hey! If only the Police and the Military are allowed to have guns, anyone else who has one is automatically a "bad guy".Sounds like it would make the Cops' job a whole lot easier. (Especially that part where they no longer have to assume that anyone they stop for J-walking may pull a gun and kill them.)
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 02 October 2006 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 12
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"The Great Depression threw democracies around the world into extremists
totalitarian governments."
No, the crushing demands of Treaty of Versailles on the Germans planted
the seeds of the rise of the Nazi Party long before the Great
Depression came around. And Japan's imperialist course was set long
before that era as well.
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Topic Closed)
