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Topic: OT: We’ve got to get rid of the guns (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Brian O'Neill
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Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 741
Posted: 04 October 2006 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 1  

"Bear arms? NO WAY!"

"WAY!"

Ad infinitum

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Rey Madrinan
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Joined: 08 August 2004
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Posts: 865
Posted: 04 October 2006 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 2  

 There you go, Rey.

******

Assuming that your responding to my last post, if you have similar law experience to the other Mike, I'll let you guys figure it out. I'm not gonna pretend to have the know nearly as much as you two.

If you don't, I'm gonna give the other Mike the benefit of the doubt.

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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 3  

My mother says you can knock on a deaf man's door forever.

I won't.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132341
Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 4  

Some numbers:

Firearms

There are an estimated 192 million firearms in civilian hands. Yet, fewer and fewer Americans own more and more guns.

Surprisingly, only 25 percent of adults own a firearm. Of these, three out of four own more than one gun.

About 10 percent of the adult population owns 77 percent of the total stock of firearms.

Handguns

There are about 65 million handguns in the United States. Handguns make up 34 percent of all types of firearms.

Of all firearm-related crime, 86 percent involved handguns.

Only one in six Americans own handguns.

Unlike manufacturers of other consumer products, the industry that makes handguns is unregulated for health and safety.

Overall Firearm-Related Deaths

Since 1962, more than one million Americans have died in firearm homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings. Handguns were used in more than 650,000 of these fatal shootings.

In 1997—the most recent year available—there were 89 firearm deaths per day, or a firearm death every 16 minutes.

In homes with guns, a member of the household is almost three times as likely to be the victim of a homicide compared to gun-free homes.

Handguns and Homicide

On the average, if someone gets shot and killed, four out of five times it will be with a handgun. In 1997, for example, handguns were used in 79.4 percent of all firearm homicides.

From 1990 to 1997, handguns were used in a majority (55.6 percent) of all homicides; that is, they were used in murder more than all other weapons combined.

From 1990 to 1997, there were 293,781 firearm deaths—homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings.

From 1990 to 1997 in the United States there were more than—

*     160,000 homicides
*     110,000 firearm homicides
*     89,000 handgun homicides


Handgun homicides hit record highs in the early 1990s, peaking in 1993. That year there were 13,258 such killings—out of a total of 16,120 firearm homicides.

As part of an overall drop in crime, in 1997 handgun homicides fell to 8,503.

Suicide

The largest category of firearms fatality is suicide, not homicide. In 1997, 54 percent of all gun deaths were suicides, and 42 percent were homicides.

About six out of 10 suicides are committed with firearms.

For firearm suicides, it is estimated that handguns are used twice as often (69 percent) as rifles and shotguns.

For all suicides, it is estimated that more than four out of 10 were committed with handguns.

From 1990 to 1997—


*     there were more than 147,000 suicides committed
with a firearm
*     an estimated 90,000 involved a handgun

People living in a household with a gun are almost five times more likely to die by suicide than people living in a gun-free home.

Self Defense

For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in—


*     1.3 unintentional deaths
*     4.6 criminal homicides
*     37 suicides


In 1997 there were 15,690 homicides.


*     Of these, 8,503 were committed with handguns.
*     Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent)
were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.


For every time in 1997 that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.

Costs

For every firearm death, there are nearly three gun injuries requiring emergency medical treatment.

By conservative estimates, gunshot injuries cost about $4 billion a year in medical expenses.

Public Attitudes

Polls over the past 20 years have consistently shown that one out of three Americans support a ban on handgun possession (except by law enforcement officers).

Several polls taken in 1999 show this level of support reaching as high as 44 percent to 50 percent.

The Second Amendment

No gun control law has ever been overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court on Second Amendment grounds. Such laws include federal bans on machine guns and semiautomatic assault weapons as well as local community bans on the sale and possession of handguns.

Every federal Court of Appeals that has considered the meaning of the Second Amendment has held that it protects the right of states to maintain a militia, not an individual right to own a gun.


*     In 1981 the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals stated
that "possession of a handgun by individuals is not
part of the right to keep and bear arms."
*     In 1976 the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals noted "the
erroneous supposition that the Second Amendment
is concerned with the rights of individuals rather than
those of the states."


http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/hgbanfs.htm

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James Wright
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 5  

My shotgun saved my life.  I didn't even hurt anyone.  I'm glad I had it.
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 6  

Bit vague, wouldn't you say, James?
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Rey Madrinan
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | 7  

My mother says you can knock on a deaf man's door forever.

I won't.

*****

Your mother was pretty smart, Micheal.

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Dave Rolls
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 8  

<<So has anyone here actually had their opinions changed on the issue of guns
during the course of this thread? >>

Not on guns, no. On some of the people posting - very much so.

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Rey Madrinan
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 9  

My shotgun saved my life.  I didn't even hurt anyone.  I'm glad I had it.

************

And whatever gun that nut-job used in Lancaster ended the lives of 5 little girls.

Whats your point?

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Gregg Halecki
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 10  

JB are you saying that since I myself own a handgun, and keep it to use for personal security in my home in case of an intruder threatening my family (and I HAVE had prowlers around my place), that I am, in your eyes, endorsing the murder of children? If so, could you go over your logic for that one more time for me?

I don't think that any sane person out there would disagree with the fact that there are plenty of people out there that shouldn't have access to guns. However, why should I not be allowed to protect my family using any and all means available to me, including the use of a handgun if that is what it takes? My handgun has never been involved in the murder of children, but it HAS been involved in protecting my family.

You can look at all of the statistics on violent deaths in America and you will see what a large portion of them (involving handguns or other means) are committed by people who have a history of violent acts. These people should not be walking around to begin with to have the oppertunity to harm people.

Unfortunately I see the MOST upsetting aspect of these school shootings recntly is the fact that the focus (such as this thread) by so many people is on the fact that guns were used in the acts as opposed to the real problem. The real problem sis the fact that there are people out there that WANT to do these things.

If someone wants to harm another person, they have the advantage of initiative. They can FIND a way to hurt them with enough effort. People pick victims that they think they can handle. If someone wants to hurt me or my family, I am at a disadvantage. I don't really see that a 16 year old scrawny math-club type is going to pick a fight with me. People generally don't initiate violence against people that can defend themselves properly. If some 23 year old linebacker from the University of Miami decides he wants to break into my house in the middle of the night looking for money or drugs or kicks, there really wouldn't be much I could do to stop him without being armed. If I was not allowed to have my gun, is there anyone that says that it would just be BETTER overall if I was NOT able to defend myself?

Instead of trying to take away guns from honest people, why not put that effort into keeping the dangerous people off the street?

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Steve Horton
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 11  

"You cannot address crime prevention without getting rid of assault weapons and handguns. I consider them a threat to national security, and I will go door to door if I have to, but I'm gonna convince Americans that I'm right, and I'm gonna get the guns."

 

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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 04 October 2006 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 12  

Gregg, you make a great deal of sense.
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