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Rick Whiting Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Posts: 2231
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Posted: 01 September 2024 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 1
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This rule should also include establishing a character's sexuality from the start when you create a character for Marvel and DC. If not, you will shave stuff like retconning the sexuality of characters like Iceman, Psylocke, Karma, Electro, Deadpool, Rictor, Shatterstar, and now Kitty Pryde.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoop-marvel-to-make-kitty-p ryde-canonically-bisexual-this-week/
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133754
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Posted: 01 September 2024 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 2
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Damage Control is a bit like the episode of Star Trek TNG where they devote a whole episode to explaining the reason behind so many aliens races being humanoid. No explanation is needed for a conceit of the genre. Bleuggrh.••• Continuing to watch DISCOVERY with a friend who’s a fan, I just learned the fifth and final season begins with a reference to that TNG nonsense. sigh
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4888
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Posted: 01 September 2024 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 3
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Rick - I don't know if that's really practical unless you're talking aboiut a "character bible" defining the character for writers and artists.
There are instances of writers ignoring years of precident and making characters gay (Iceman and the Rawhide Kid for instance) and some people will explain it as a mid-life "awakening" - which, if set up well, is believable. But too often we don't see the set-up. An example being Hercules, who had always been shown as preferring women (and to excess), but it seemed a little late in the game to shoehorn a relationship with a male character. (Although if he were introduced as a new character now bisexuality would certainly be believable).
I don't have a problem with a wide range of character being portrayed. I think it's better to do it with a character like Moondragon, who is pretty much a blank slate that it is Bobby Drake, who has been shown having interest exlusively in females (and yes, I do realize there are people who grow up denying their sexuality, but we saw no inclination of that with Iceman, we saw interest in Zelda Kurtzberg, Polaris, Darkstar and Opal Tanaka). Again, with a proper set-up it would have much more believable.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133754
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Posted: 01 September 2024 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 4
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I have no problem with characters of all and any stripe (excepting pedophiles), but I prefer them to be introduced as NEW characters. I’ve created a few of those myself!
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4888
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Posted: 01 September 2024 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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I don't think think they have much confidence in 100% new characters, judging by how many are derivative now. Jane Foster with the powers of Thor! Gwen Stacy with spider-powers! Two Captain Americas! Two Spider-Mans! A second Black Widow! Thunderbolt Ross as Red Hulk! Elektra as Daredevil! A young, female Wolverine! A young, female Hawkeye! A young, female Iron Man knockoff! A second Werewolf by Night! Another Ghost Rider, but this one drives a car! Replacements for Nighthawk, Giant-Man, Goliath, Nova...... ad nauseum....
It makes me wonder how any long-time readers can stand to read the new stuff.
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Rich Johnston Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 February 2019 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 35
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Posted: 01 September 2024 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 6
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Hercules was portrayed as being partial to men as well… just happened to be long before Marvel got hold of him. Many, including Jason, Adonis, and Iolaus.
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Jim Burdo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2020 Location: United States Posts: 377
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Posted: 02 September 2024 at 4:46am | IP Logged | 7
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Iolaus was his nephew. It doesn't happen in the actual myths, but suggested by Roman commentators from what I've heard.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14865
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Posted: 02 September 2024 at 5:11am | IP Logged | 8
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This rule should also include establishing a character's sexuality from the start when you create a character for Marvel and DC. If not, you will shave stuff like retconning the sexuality of characters like Iceman, Psylocke, Karma, Electro, Deadpool, Rictor, Shatterstar, and now Kitty Pryde.
———
I was going to comment that X-TREME X-MEN came out 23 years ago and that the reintroduction of Sage/Tessa made me realize that Chris Claremont likes to write all his women as bisexual genius ninjas. Then I realized we already had this discussion four years ago.
Complete with Alan Davis acknowledging that he illustrated Sat-Yr-9 (disguised as Courtney Ross) attempting to corrupt Kitty as a lesbian affair.
As an adult, I find it disturbing that Kitty was supposed to be 15/16 in EXCALIBUR, but was in relationships with adults.
Anyway, I find the idea of “changing orientations” only problematic if you view orientation as a binary or trinary or whatever state. If you think of sexuality existing on a spectrum, as many younger generations do, it’s less of an issue. Labels exist for representation and advocacy, not as a strictly defined category.
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Rich Johnston Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 February 2019 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 35
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Posted: 02 September 2024 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 9
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Those Greeks, those Romans...
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Jim Burdo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2020 Location: United States Posts: 377
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 10
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As for Alan Davis, that was his interpretation of Claremont's plot. Claremont was doing his theme of the bad guy erasing the hero's individuality and turning them into a clone. Kitty and Sat-yr-9 don't go dancing together, and look similar driving off at the end. Sat-yr-9 isn't a lesbian and is obsessed with Brian Braddock.
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8697
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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Ric k Whiting brought up characters' sexuality.
I believe its absolutely stupid that DC decided to make the original Green Lantern, Alan Scott, gay. A character who has been around since the 1940's. I wonder if they did so because DC made an alternate universe version of him gay and the media mistakenly reported that it was the original?
I'm surprised some writer hasn't made Wonder Woman bi.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133754
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 12
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Oh, trust me, that is taken as given. “An island of nothing but women? Of course they’re all gay/bi!”
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