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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 21 June 2024 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Mark Haslett wrote: Please provide a direct quote where Francis Meres says Shakespeare is a writer from Stratford or where the Parnassus plays do the same.

SB replied: Meres attributes eight plays to William Shakespeare. All eight appear in the First Folio, whose publication has been arranged by John Heminges and Henry Condell, who knew, and were named in the will of, William Shakespeare who died in Stratford-Upon-Avon.

**

That's a "direct quote"?
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 21 June 2024 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yes, John, those sonnets haven't even entered the conversation yet.

Not only do they imply in clearest terms that the author is dead, they also state in the author's own words that the author's actual name will not be remembered, though his writing will live on forever.

All evidence lines up cooperatively when we see "Shakespeare" as a pen name.

Nothing lines up when we see "Shakespeare" as the son of an illegal wool merchant from Warwickshire.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 21 June 2024 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Again, SB -- Please provide any textual analysis of Hall's work to show how all the specific qualities that Hall provides to identify "Labeo" can be properly placed upon Marston.

Your failure to address this at all is telling.
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Steven Brake
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Posted: 21 June 2024 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

JB wrote: We should recall that the dedication of the First Folio refers to Shakespeare as “our ever living poet”. Scholars have searched far and wide without being able to find any use of that phrase (ever living) to describe someone, anyone, who was still alive.

The First Folio was published in 1606. Shaksper died in 1616, DeVere in 1604/5.

SB replied: The First Folio was published in 1623, seven years after Shakespeare's death and nineteen years afer De Vere's.

I've seem the argument about "ever living" made before, and I'm going to do a bit of digging about it. :)



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Steven Brake
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Posted: 21 June 2024 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Mark Haslett wrote: That's a "direct quote"?

SB replied: No, but it's a direct line of evidence. 

What is this obsession that Alternative Authorship theorists have with Shakespeare having to be named in the same breath as Stratford Upon Avon? Do you demand that references to, say, Ben Jonson, must say in full "Ben Jonson of London, or "Christopher Marlowe of Canterbury"?

I asked before "Can you provide a direct quote from any of Shakespeare's contemporaries in which they directly state that he wasn't the author?".

Can you do so? And, in accordance with your own standards, will it name the author and their birthplace or place of work?



Edited by Steven Brake on 21 June 2024 at 6:08pm
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 21 June 2024 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Steven, you ask for far more than you are willing to give.

But I already provided you the direct quote from Hall and the context which
determines clearly that Hall says Labeo is Dhakespeare and Labeo uses a
pen name.
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Steven Brake
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Posted: 21 June 2024 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Mark Haslett wrote: But I already provided you the direct quote from Hall

SB replied: Have you provided a full quote from Joseph Hall from Ashby De La Zouch? 

These are your rules - not mine.

Mark Haslett wrote:...and the context which determines clearly that Hall says Labeo is Shakespeare and Labeo uses a pen name.

SB replied: Hall says - not directly, but his meaning is plain - that Labeo is a pseudonym. There is nothing to prove that it's a reference to Shakespeare. It could be  Marston, or perhaps even no-one, just a derogatory catch-all term for what Hall viewed as a vulgar tendency in poetry.
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