Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum Page of 4 Next >>
Topic: OT- More Shootings Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30832
Posted: 27 March 2023 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

As I type this we’re still waiting for my boss to let us know the status of her
grandkids. There was a shooting at their preK-6 school and there has
already been confirmation of three students and three adults being killed.
It’s been almost an hour now. I at least hope she’s found something out by
now.



I just don’t understand it. Little kids. Why?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4716
Posted: 27 March 2023 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

After what happened at Sandy Hook, this should NOT surprise anyone. It's so tragic.

The argument continues while nothing changes.

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 27 March 2023 at 6:23pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4407
Posted: 27 March 2023 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

A friend of my parents (and disabled too) was murdered a few weeks ago by a known to many 'crazy' person with just a knife. Perhaps if that person (do we hold anyone involuntarily for mental illness anymore?) had a gun he would've killed many? It should be a matter of genuine need for having one... and then being properly responsible and accountable in it's handling. In remote areas you can need a rifle where there are serious animal attack possibilities, perhaps someone dealing with valuables in a big city could be seen to need a handgun. Much else is discretionary... do you allow fifty or one hundred million discretionary firearms around in a civil society, or do you have a lot less. When in the U.S. I've assumed everyone to have access but that 99% or so will be responsibly intentioned. I would only want to have access to a rifle very rurally and would and will never choose to carry any guns in or near a city, I have training that is better suited to dealing with extreme situations to the realistic extent such can be 'dealt' with. As my parents' friend found out things other than guns can intentionally kill every bit as permanently. He died horribly, having convulsions and then lapsing into a coma for some time, even though police arrived very quickly. It was a sickening, shocking, reality and our lives are forever more diminished. :^(

Whys can be premeditated or deemed insanity. When the criminal or the insane have the supposed 'right' to freedom you can turn communities and neighborhoods to some extent into actual prison or other wards. This is why I do not take offense to any officers of the law questioning me, they are a protection, and we as citizens on councils and such must ensure they are capable protectors of all law abiding people, but also not expect them to be social-workers as much as we do. Racism obviously needs screening out. That's about all you can do, but the cat is out of the bag given the number of firearms known to be out there, but you don't take down all traffic signs and lights because there are some bad drivers. Manufacturers are increasingly being held responsible and that's one area of progress at least.

Best wishes for the U.S.A. as always. :^(
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7580
Posted: 27 March 2023 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Praying they are ok Brian.

Guns are shit.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30832
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 12:04am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

They are ok.



The shooter was a 28-year-old former student. Female. Still have nothing in
regards to motive as far as I’ve seen.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30832
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

All three victims were 9 years old. Jesus fuck. I can’t even imagine.



Hug your kids tonight team, and be glad you can.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132129
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 1:38am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Some news sources are identifying the shooter as transgender.

I shudder to think of the insanity that might unleash in some people.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 795
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 2:10am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The shooter is a biological female who identifies as male on her linkedin page.  Police say they recovered a manifesto at her residence, so we should find out soon whether that had anything to do with the shooter's motive.

"I shudder to think of the insanity that might unleash in some people."

Likewise.  You're going to have crazies who blame the entire trans community for this, and you're going to have crazies who say the parents of these children deserved this because their Christian theology persecutes trans people.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2997
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 3:16am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The same people who usually insist it's outrageous to politicize mass shooting are politicizing this one like pigs in shit. It turns out that three mass shootings in the past five years were committed by a trans person, and the usual suspects are celebrating this as a trend, rather than statistical nonexistence.

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4407
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 4:32am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

If I have this straight, this was a self-declared female to male (born female but identifying as male) trans person? There might be something to be said for in this one label not saying people can self proclaim as with gay or bi people, but it being an actual diagnosis only made by qualified accredited folks? A whole other topic it might seem, but my understanding is those seeking surgery have got to go through psychiatric evaluation. However there is a whole mass of not wanting surgery but being in some continuing in-between, or transitional state, and that's fine but perhaps there can be a distinction between people on the scale? If anyone can claim to be trans then they could also falsely claim it and commit some act to villify them. I recently read that among the first books Nazis in Germany burned were books on gender and homosexuality, and that the very first transsexual to have had a sex-change operation (named Dora Richter) was also murdered in the same attack! It's important to defend all minority groups on the basis of the "they came for the _______s and I was not a ________, so I said and did nothing" and of course eventually 'they' come for you and by then there is hardly anyone left to say or do anything.

By that kind of illogic of tarring all of a group, if straight men are a majority of shooters then... but of course it's all just the looking for some 'other' grouping to blame. Is there any grouping of any kind that has never had a violent person among it's number? Maybe some sect of Buddhist monks in a remote place, or are they only less obviously violent and engage in psychological wars among themselves?

What's obviously not logical is thinking guns = safety, ergo more guns = more safety. Quite the opposite is a provable fact, but the money is in selling them and allowing their sale, not in restricting them. There's something particularly noble though in championing a cause that is both right yet seems utterly lost; to hope amidst a sea of resignation and apathy. Also courageous as one could be the target of threats by people known for their 'love' of guns and the rights for having them!

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 28 March 2023 at 4:34am
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1731
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Rebecca yes, we still hold people involuntarily for their mental state i.e. a threat to themselves, or to others, or is gravely disabled - in California it is called a 5150.  Although I must say that, due to budget cuts over the years, a great many people who needed help were unable to get that help.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 795
Posted: 28 March 2023 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

The shooter may have been trans, and that may have been linked to the shooter's motive in attacking the school, but right now there's not enough information available to confirm either of those things.

"What's obviously not logical is thinking guns = safety, ergo more guns = more safety."

I think that depends on the mindset of the shooter. If the shooter intends to get away, then they are likely to pick a soft target where they don't think anyone will be shooting back.  Conversely, if the shooter is on suicide mission, then the presence of other guns would not be a deterrent.  I wouldn't advocate for arming teachers or school administrators, but if security guards are armed and trained that might deter someone.  

More importantly, buildings must be secured.  That might not have helped in this case, because the shooter shot her way through the door, but in other instances, we have seen shooters enter schools through unlocked doors.  

If there is only one point of entry for someone who is not supposed to be there, and that point of entry is under constant surveillance, then there is a better chance to stop a shooter or warn everyone, so that active shooter protocols can be initiated.

Not arguing against sensible gun control, but unless and until that happens, the problem needs to be dealt with in the next most effective way.


Edited by John Wickett on 28 March 2023 at 3:02pm
Back to Top profile | search
 

Page of 4 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login