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Topic: Has He Not Read the Book? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Evan S. Kurtz
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Joined: 04 July 2022
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Posted: 28 January 2023 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I'm pretty sure the kingdom that established those laws no longer exists, so at this point they are nothing more than a historical record. There's also some debate as to the original intent of the law, apparently:  https://academic.oup.com/jts/article-abstract/71/1/1/5810142 ?redirectedFrom=fulltext
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Dale Lerette
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Posted: 28 January 2023 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yes, Pope Francis criticized laws that criminalize homosexuality as unjust, saying God loves all his children just as they are and called on Catholic bishops who support the laws to welcome LGBTQ people into the church.

I agree with his initiative. There are many "sins  punishable by death" from back then that we no longer observe, such as homicide, striking one's parents, kidnapping, cursing one's parents, witchcraft and divination, bestiality, worshiping other gods, violating the Sabbath, child sacrifice, adultery, and incest

We've already condemned the forms of justice that seek to make those behaviors "punishable by death" .

Following Roman Catholic tradition, is there something wrong with someone condemning forms of justice that seek to punish the LGBT community with death?


Edited by Dale Lerette on 28 January 2023 at 11:19pm
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 29 January 2023 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Having been raised Catholic, I appreciate what Pope Francis is trying to do.

Is it enough or up to our standards? Of course not. It's what he can do without being thrown out of The Vatican.

I'm sure he doesn't think homosexuality is a sin, and that it's not reasonable at all to follow the Bible (with all the changes and "edits" it suffered for 2000 years for nefarious purposes) to the letter.

But he can't outright say that, because the backlash would be intolerable.

So he kind of tries to "soften" the message and hopefully it gets some of his flock (uneducated, old, believe me I know them) to get a bit closer to the views of the modern, civilized world.

I had high hopes for him, and maybe he fell short but really, I can't come up with anything more he could do.

When the next Pope comes we will remember him fondly, of that I'm sure.

  
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 29 January 2023 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

He has to have an eye to the continuation of the church and it's power. I can come up with more he could do, like end that celibacy rule they admit was created by them, and also uphold the 'allowance' the cardinals voted for in regards to birth control way back which a previous Pope vetoed and another seconded magically closing the book on the issue permanently. This church centered on a middle eastern prophet of two thousand years ago has brought a lot of death and suffering to many third world countries and people far removed from the lands of 'The Bible'... a slightly liberal swing away from some absolutes is nice though I suppose. Hope the Islamic world might take a turn at that so that maybe with competition they can egg each other on?

In North America there is still the protecting of their wayward priests however... maybe start correction at home eh? Ultimately it's the church which did not want the flock to actually read the book and designed many grand titles and costumes to impress others how closer to God they supposedly are (which can also be said of the all male Tibetan Buddhists I'm sure).

If I'm going to think about religion, accept it as a force upon many others in this world, show respect, I'm not going to be in the mood to adopt it's viewpoint, because it imposes itself upon many of us all our lives unwantedly as often as offering inspiration or good works. It may all be a seen as a form of juvenile mental illness someday. Nonetheless I have various formulations of the one great book called The Bible sitting alongside The Upanishads, a heavily footnoted Qu-ran (a differenace with 'our' own inviolable texts), Buddhist and Jewish writings, Native American, Celtic, Ancient Greek and Egyptian mythologies. For awhile I even got copies of a U.S. Catholic magazine, although it was quite refreshingly liberal.

Really, it's a big mess and so of course the appeal is order and simplification. As an outsider although having known (and even been engaged once to) Catholics (practicing to lapsed) I don't see it as really working too well for so many. So now it works a little better for the non-heterosexual Catholics out there if they still exist, but there is much damage out there still of the church of the purported past to be addressed.

It's a collection of disparate writings from various times, cultures, languages and places, and may even be about various different 'one and only' Gods to boot... that is as simple as it can be made. Change from within or give it up as dog's breakfast the further and farther it's gone along? Best to keep that question unresolved for now I think.

Some fine-tuning to a very old jalopy.

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 29 January 2023 at 6:44pm
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Mark McKay
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Posted: 29 January 2023 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Though it may be its at odds with his job, Im glad he stated this.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 01 February 2023 at 2:03am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Yes, thank God his one true Catholic church can have someone at the top to be bothered to instruct them not to hate or kill now. It was so easy, guess others didn't think of it. Here we are on the road to utopia!

But don't look at recent news in Quebec I guess, or lots of other places with Catholic priests still making the news for some very not nice reasons. In Africa they were caught telling their 'flock' how condoms spread AIDS!

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 01 February 2023 at 2:04am
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