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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 1  

This begins with a movie, but it is a post about the actual comics:

I was watching "X-Men: Days of Future Past" again last night and the scene showing Quicksilver holding a small girl, presumably his sister Wanda (Scarlet Witch) got me thinking about their comics origins. The film had Pietro Maximoff as a teen-ager named Peter (The Americanized equivalent of his name) living in America, instead of somewhere in Eastern Europe, and if that is his sister she should be his twin, and so the same age. I then thought about how the comics handled their origins.

In the first story we know that Pietro and Wanda are from somewhere in eastern Europe, and are sibling mutants that were rescued by Magneto and feel indebted to him. Because of this debt, they go along with his evil  plans to rule humanity.



It won't be until another, roughly, 16 years before we are told as readers that the two are twins, I believe. That happens in an "Avengers" story in 1979. We are also told more about their real mother, learning that neither the gypsy Maximoff's nor Whizzer and his wife were the actual parents of the twins.





And over in "Uncanny X-Men" during the same period we first get a hint as to whom is their real father...



I remember reading interviews with JB and Claremont, as well as mentions in letter columns of the era that talked about Magneto being the father of Wanda and Pietro, but this had yet to be fully confirmed in the comic book stories.

It wouldn't be until 1982 that the parentage was confirmed for readers in the "The Vision and Scarlet Witch" mini-series:




This got me to thinking about other stories in comics where something is known to the writers and people creating the comics, and to readers that may pick up on clues from the comics, or from interviews, but that something is not spelled out or confirmed in the actual comics stories for a long time, if ever.

Another example would be the secret that Sabretooth was really Wolverine's father. This was brought up in interviews years before it was mentioned in the comics. Eventually, though, that one would prove to be untrue in the comics, and that they were actually brothers.

What other "known" secrets in comics can you think of?



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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 2  

Sabretooth and Wolverine are not brothers in the comics.
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David Bensette
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 3  

In best Dana Carvey doing Dennis Miller voice....."that is one wacky origin story"!
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 4  

Lightning Lad "died" in an early Legion story way back when, fighting Zaryan the Conqueror. In fact, the story only says that he is in a death-like coma and ends with the team wondering if they will ever find some way of reviving him. This coma is certainly treated as if it were truly death, however, and Lightning Lad is given the Snow White glass coffin treatment. 

A later story shows that Mon-El has been hiding a possible solution to the problem. He knows that taking the body to a certain planet enshrouded in perpetual lightning storms and holding up a metal rod will transfer the life essence of the living person with the rod into the dead person, bringing them back. The Legionnaires all agree to participate in a sort of Russian Roulette/ Suicide Pact to bring back their dead friend. Ah, but Saturn Girl loves Lightning Lad and feels she MUST be the one to give her life for his. She schemes to hold aloft a rod made of a super-conductive material, thus ensuring she is the one struck first. 

All goes according to her plan. She is struck and killed by lightning. Lightning Lad returns, but wishes he hadn't if the cost was Saturn Girl's life.

We soon find out however, that Proty, Chameleon Boy's telepathic super-pet, who shared a rapport with Saturn Girl learned of her intent and ran off leading her away from the ceremony and into some dark caves where she was lost. He then impersonated her and gave his life in place of hers. So, she's alive. Lightning Lad's alive. And faster than you can say, "Gwen Stacy's a clone!" Chameleon Boy had replaced Proty with his new pet, Proty II. So, happy endings all around, right? 

As it turns out, no.

One of the most god-awful trains of thought to ever bubble up from the fetid puddles of fandom was the notion that the lightning strike didn't just transfer Proty's life into Lightning Lad. It transferred all of him, his entire identity. Lightning Lad is, and always has been dead. Dead dead dead.

Saturn Girl is a complete moron, you see, and even though she can read minds and Proty knows exactly what the score here is, she never, in all the years she's spent with "Lightning Lad" picked up on any of his thoughts about who he is or recognized the rapport she shared with Cham's little blobby buddy. She even married the little super-pet thinking he was really Lightning Lad. She's had kids with him. All the while, never suspecting...

This "life essence transfer" bit was a long-held "known secret" among certain pockets of fandom, all of them laughing up their sleeves at the hated "ice-queen" Saturn Girl and how dumb-de-dumb-dumb-dumb she is and how brave and how noble and how wonderful Proty is not to ever let on... It took two of their number joining the title to actually bring this garbage to the book itself and establish it as continuity. 

There was even a similar bit involving a Legion back-up story in Action Comics in which Mon-El's ancestor, Eltro Gand, did something similar to revive Mon-El. So guess what...? Yeah, fortunately, that one didn't even catch on when the fans were running the asylum, but we still had to put up with Moron Saturn Girl and Noble Proty for far too long.

Can't believe I'd ever say this, but in this case, it turns out there really is some stuff that just needs to be rebooted into the cornfield...

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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 5  

Hm. The Avenger flashback indicates that Magda left a husband who had gained "strange...powers" and feared the madness he displayed would corrupt her child(ren).

The X-Men flashback indicates she left him when he still thought of himself as "only human."  Doesn't mean his powers hadn't manifested, necessarily, but before his "madness" had (if he didn't think of himself as homo superior)...

Pretty sure I was under the impression that Magneto was Wanda and Pietro's father...definitely before that Vision and Scarlet Witch issue. Not sure if it was just from hints such as those above...or also discussion with other fans.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 04 November 2014 at 12:19pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 6  

I would describe the detail in the Avengers and X-Men issues as far more than "hints."  They do everything but explicitly state Magneto is the father.  I would think that pretty much everyone who who read those issues came away with the understanding that Magneto was the father.  I certainly was aware of it after reading them, and I'm hardly a deductive genius.


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 04 November 2014 at 3:02pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 7  

Magneto being Wanda and Pietro's father seemed so logical! When I suggested it, there were no objections!

My intent, mind you, was that it be an "open secret". But such things are not possible in comics, it seems.

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 8  

 Micheal Roberts wrote:
...Sabretooth and Wolverine are not brothers in the comics...


Wasn't this mentioned or implied in "Origin"? I can't keep track anymore.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 9  

Brian Hague, I didn't know all that about the Legion of Super-Heroes. I have read the book, but mostly during the Paul Levitz/Keith Giffen era. Wow! That's crazy stuff!
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 10  

 Brian Rhodes wrote:
...Pretty sure I was under the impression that Magneto was Wanda and Pietro's father...definitely before that Vision and Scarlet Witch issue. Not sure if it was just from hints such as those above...or also discussion with other fans...


It had to be the hints of the discussion with fans. Other than a letter column, in either "Avengers" or "Uncanny X-Men," I forget which now, there was no actual confirmation until that mini-series, "The Vision and Scarlet Witch" in 1982.

I was following all of it as it was published.

Edited to note: I don't believe that letter column I mentioned confirmed anything, either. If I recall, a fan asked about the connection, and the editorial response was something like, "maybe... but we aren't telling."

Edited by Matt Hawes on 04 November 2014 at 1:50pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 11  

My intent was for Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father. The mutation having bred true was why he sometimes read as a mutant, sometimes not.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 04 November 2014 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 12  

 John Byrne wrote:
...My intent was for Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father...


I remember you saying that in interviews (and on the board, too). In the first ongoing "Wolverine" series, issue 42, I recall that Sabretooth finally told Wolverine he was his father, but that was later said to be a lie. And even later, as I noted above, the "Origin" series with Wolverine implied Sabretooth and Wolverine were brothers (which is why the movie "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" has them as brothers). Michael Roberts posted above that this is not true in the comics, and since I haven't kept up on all the comics in the past decade, I didn't know it was changed again.
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