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Topic: He Doesn’t Do Backgrounds... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Ian Evans
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 1  

...Neal Adams, that is...I have been re-reading the GL/GA run that Adams did - thrilling and wonderful art-much better than the tales it illustrates imo-and I notice that he doesn't bother too much with background detail, concentrating instead on the (brilliant) figure and portrait work.  Was his work ever criticised for this in the way that JB - much less justly - is?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 8:34am | IP Logged | 2  

If you look at most comics published before the late 1970s, early 1980s, you will find artists worried very little about backgrounds. Kirby was famous for his cosmic scenery and elaborate machinery, but flipping thru a typical issue of FANTASTIC FOUR will find just as many panels without backgrounds as with. (One of my all-time favorite Kirby panels features a Puppet Master-possessed Thing hurling Johnny Storm across a room, almost directly at the reader. The panel has no backgrounds at all!

In an odd way, I was responsible myself for the charges of "no backgrounds" sometimes leveled (with very little accuracy) against my own work, as it was in the 70s/80s that people like George Perez, Michael Golden, Berni Wrightson, Marshall Rogers and I started concentrating as much on the backgrounds as on the figures set in front of them. It didn't take long for fans to expect -- nay, demand! -- this as the "norm".

And in response to your question, no, I don't recall "doesn't do backgrounds" ever being directed toward Neal. He'd know better, of course!

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Ian Evans
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 3  

Thanks for that JB...I do remember being very surprised when I read that you had been criticised in this way, because my own impressions of your work had been that it was much more meticulous in this regard than most other artists, at least in the lte seventies/early eighties when I was a regular comics reader...
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Andrew Kneath
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 4  

A lot of people don't seem to realise that the "No Backgrounds" charge levelled against JB these days generally relates to close-up panels of characters where JB often does leave the background blank, not those epic scene setting splash pages he does.

Personally I have no problem with this, it's like when a photographer will blur the background on a portrait. In fact there is a good case that backgrounds on such panels only serve to clutter the image. However I think it's true that JB being of the "old school" does it more than more contemporary artists do.

 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 5  

Until I started doing my own lettering, too, there was some degree of "teething troubles" when I started inking my own work.

At first, I did full pencils, as I had on UNCANNY X-MEN, and sent them in to Marvel, along with my scripts, to be lettered. These were sent back, and I inked them. One day, I realized I really wasn't adding anything in the inks (this was in the early days on FANTASTIC FOUR), and asked editor Jim Salicrup if he had any problem with me switching to breakdowns, and sending those in for lettering. He didn't, so I did.

Unfortunately, at the same time Marvel started dicking around with the schedules, so I found myself losing time even tho I was continuing to produce one issue per month. (This was on FF and, later, ALPHA FLIGHT). Eventually, to try to regain lost time, I decided to start inking the pages as I penciled them, indicating space for the lettering, or even leaving the background blank to fascilitate the letterer's job.

At some point, unconsciously, the latter method started to take over, so more and more panels were being drawn without backgrounds, just so the letterer wouldn't have to work with my "best guess" balloon and caption shapes. It's during this period that there is a serious lack of backgrounds in my work.

It didn't last long, fortunately, as I got far enough ahead that I was able to turn the inking over to others again, and, eventually, I started doing my own lettering. That was the best of all possible worlds.

The period without backgrounds went largely unnoticed at the time, at least in terms of fan response (nary a letter commented on it), but it must have created some kind of subliminal resonance in the minds of the bashers (of which there were already a few, seething from my betrayal of them when I left X-MEN), as I began to hear more and more "Byrne never does backgrounds." (Always in the absolute, of course. I pointed out more than once that all I needed to do to disprove this statement was produce a single panel with backgrounds. Of course, I was producing many more than that.)

Typically, this became a fantra (fan mantra), and was chanted by the unthinking masses long after it was even remotely true. There were even instances where these sad boys would go thru an issue with, say, 120 panels, find 12 with no backgrounds and cry "See!!", as if they had won some major victory. Do a similar count of a Kirby book, picked at random!

Anyway -- as I have said many times, pretty much all the complaints have been true at one time or another. Just, oddly, never at the time they are actually being made!

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Mark McKay
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 6  

What I don't like about this argument is that sometimes, panels just look better without backgrounds! Not having a background can put more emphasis on a character's facial expression for emotional impact, or more emphasis on action.

Sometimes, a background in a scene can be a distraction.

- Mark
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Derek Muthart
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 7  

The only time I can remember John not drawing detailed backgrounds consistently was on his run of Alpha Flight.  In fact, it got so bad on issue six he didn't even draw foregrounds let alone backgrounds on several pages.

(I hope an emoticon is not necessary to convey my sarcasm)

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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 8  

Sometimes, a background in a scene can be a distraction.

****

This is something many fans (and some artists) really fail to appreciate. In comics, we are producing the closest thing to movies that can be found on a printed page -- but it is, in the end, a printed page, and we lack many of the things that are taken for granted in movies. First and foremost among these is movement, of figures, objects, or the camera itself. We can't pan. We can't zoom in or out. So we have to use other kinds of shorthand to achieve approximations of the same effects. One of these is dropping backgrounds when we "zoom in", thus emphasizing the foreground obects.

Conside this panel, from Jack Kirby's first issue of THE DEMON:

It's been permanently embossed on my brain since the first time I saw it, almost 35 years ago. Would it have been greatly improved, or improved at all, had Kirby drawn in the dungeon that surrounded this living gargoyle? Or is it as memorable as it is precisely because the foreground "pops" so strongly with nothing behind it?

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Trevor Krysak
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 9  

Question for you JB. Would the lack of backgrounds in certain panels like the one you have shown come more from comics done in the "Marvel Method" aka plot only or from those done with full scripts? I'm interested in who is the deciding factor in doing this. To me it would be more of an artists call since they do have the eye for pages and panels more than the average writer. But I truly plead ignorance here. I recognize the need for the background to fade away at times and am curious how that gets decided.
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Shaun Crowell
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 10  

One of the reasons I enjoy JB's single figure commissions is that the character stands out so much with no background. Especially the Dr. Strange and Wolverine ones he has done.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 11  

Since Kirby wrote his own stuff, that DEMON panel would have been his decision as both writer and artist, tho it might have been the inker's decision to drop the panel border, since he also lettered the issue.

Amusing Story: Writers, when they concern themselves at all with the backgrounds, often ask for too much detail, not too little. Legend has it that Denny O'Neil parodied this in a script he wrote for Neal Adams on GREEN LANTERN/GREEN ARROW. Listing who and what was to be in a particular panel, Denny included "two rhinoceroses". So Neal drew this:

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Trevor Krysak
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Posted: 01 October 2006 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 12  

So is it better for a writer to leave the back ground to the artist? Set what it is there at the start and basically stay out of the artists' way and leave it him/her to determine the use of the background elements? The hows and whys of all this really fascinate me. I'm interested in what is going to create the best story.
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