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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 1
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I've struggled to understand the differences in people over the last couple of years and this immigrant situation has crystallized it for me. There are heroic, strong minded and opinionated people that will stand up for others when they see evil. Heroes for lack of a better term. And then there are people that will allow evil to occur as long as it isn't happening to them. I dare say that if families were being gunned down at range by border officials and it was explained as "protecting the border" there would still be people saying it is justified. The disregard for human life and humane treatment of others is immoral.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 6:59am | IP Logged | 2
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What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing and expecting a different result, right? I know this is an MSNBC report, but you can go find other reports that debunk any assumption that these are paid actors in front of the camera. I just don't understand how these people can vote for someone, have their livelihood affected and then say they would vote for him again. Oh well, stupid is as stupid does.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 3
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Okay, I try not to be nasty to people, but I'm out of patience.
What a pathetic cretin:
If Twitter had been around centuries ago, could we really imagine George Washington or Abraham Lincoln attacking a restaurant?
Edited by Robbie Parry on 25 June 2018 at 7:10am
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 4
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Idiot didn't register his .org
http://trumphotels.org
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 5
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From here I see people being spun no different than those people being spun by Breitbart, Beck, Hannity and all that junk pretending to be news reporting.
I go through chainlink fencing areas and concrete when I enter Canada from the U.S. and vice-versa. There was a sudden influx, yes, thanks to Trump's zero tolerance b.s., overloading the system with kids being separated from the parents (as proscribed by law the Trump people tried to say)... and they had to use areas not meant for keeping people in so long, but for how long were they there? Not so long, never intended as permanent 'caging', but did you catch that part? Did you want to or just get to flip out about this proves yadda-yadda-yadda?
How did the fifteen year old boy just walk out of one of the Texas detention areas with staff knowing and also knowing he could do that? And guess what, now it's the social justice left types who are 'demanding' that kids not be able to just leave like that kid did.
So attack attack attack feels nice right? But how about listening because you're going to have to. I've sat through way too much CNN and enough MSNBC on this and many others plus the daily print newspaper available here. Hour after hour on one topic mainly with juicy little outrage provoking half-truths and lots of paid guests to represent extreme sides each with their own blinders... not real news. Not getting anywhere worth getting to. If you don't want a middle voice I'd say you are the problem, not the moderate middle voices needed more than ever. Anyone can see I am hardly one extreme or the other on this. Trump and his dubious minions do need to be gone for all our sakes, but you will be helping them hang on the more you prove to their backers you are an unreasoning misinformed threat. You don't stop stupid with more stupid. You don't face name-calling and bullying by ratcheting up abuser and nazi and all these feel good 'movement' things. Mob rule by starting your own lynch mob where anyone who gets in the way or tries to apply brakes is the enemy? Pure virtuous on one side, sinister evil on the other? Maybe you have read comic books for too long?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 6
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If you don't want a middle voice I'd say you are the problem, not the moderate middle voices needed more than ever. Anyone can see I am hardly one extreme or the other on this.
-----
You do understand that argumentum ad temperantiam is a fallacy, yes? The moderate view, the middle ground, is not always at the center of the two sides of the issue. You don't look between racists and and anti-racists and say, "Hey guys, let's be moderate here, meet halfway, and only be partially racist." That is part of the power of the propaganda technique, the Big Lie. Even if you don't fall for it, the Liar has now set the "middle ground" between the truth and a lie, which is still a lie.
The policy of separating children from the parents is wrong, and no amount of whataboutism or claims of media hysteria will change that. "Oh, the caging isn't permanent." No shit. What difference does that make?
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 7
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You do understand that argumentum ad temperantiam is a fallacy, yes?
************
Thank you for this excellent new addition to my vocabulary. Totally agree. We are way past the point of trying to make peace with bad people.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 8
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So you'll be with Maxine Waters then rather than Nancy Pelosi... for harassing and chanting at someone in a restaurant. Even CNN is walking a lot of this extreme point of view stuff back today and saying many of the things I've written here.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4831
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 9
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I WOULD agree... IF Trump and his administration hadn't thrown any semblance of decorum under the bus with his sophomoric tweets and worldly proclamations that are then left not just unchallenged, but repeated/supported by his minions plus the complicit GOP.
Trump just suggested getting rid of due process. This isn’t a difference over tax policy. This is about the moral foundation of the country. There are consequences to cruel policies and Trump incessantly attacking Dems as anti-American to avoid taking any blame for his decisions.
Perhaps you should review how women and African Americans secured a voice and advanced their causes. It wasn't by sitting quietly while those in power marginalized and dismissed them.
-C!
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Dave Phelps
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4184
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 10
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Rebecca Jansen wrote:
| There was a sudden influx, yes, thanks to Trump's zero tolerance b.s., overloading the system with kids being separated from the parents (as proscribed by law the Trump people tried to say)... and they had to use areas not meant for keeping people in so long, but for how long were they there? Not so long, never intended as permanent 'caging', but did you catch that part? Did you want to or just get to flip out about this proves yadda-yadda-yadda? |
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I think you're attributing too much of the outrage to the "cages," and not enough to the "separated from the parents" and, to a much lesser extent, the "overloading the system" parts.
It doesn't help that Trump is fanning the flames by acting like they're all here to bolster the ranks of MS-13, holding a press conference with "victims of illegals" (and apparently autographing the photos of their dead loved ones?), etc.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 11
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So you'll be with Maxine Waters then rather than Nancy Pelosi... for harassing and chanting at someone in a restaurant.
***
Yes. Trumpers are animals. Worse. I like animals.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 12
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I don't know that say the suffragette that threw herself in front of the Queen's racehorse got women the vote. Or that the lady who set herself on fire in a Minneapolis Shinder's book store got porn eliminated. If you want to escalate, demonize, hyper-emotionally react and talk of absolutes you're going against what a lot of the leadership on the left is now saying. Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr. and the students at those lunch counters had dignity, poise and intelligence. What those people experienced was beyond simply unfair, and for so unimaginably long, but the breakthroughs came not from calling white people the devil and attacking which might be understandable, it came from a place of sanity and not lowering yourself to the level of your opponent.
Now watch the heartless support for Trump solidify again, watch people feeling sorry for Sarah Huckabee-Sanders as a victim, watch the clip of Maxine Waters calling for harassment get replayed endlessly.
Slip slide and away, slip slide and away, you know the nearer your destination the more you slip slide and away. :^(
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 25 June 2018 at 7:36pm
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