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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135159
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| Posted: 23 August 2025 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 1
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I was reading over some Google entries on the status of mutants at Marvel these days(the pain… the pain) and I found myself quickly realizing the single word that encompasses most of what’s gone wrong: AND.So many descriptions of mutants contain “and”. So-and-so’s mutant powers are blah AND blah. Long way from Stan’s description of AN extra power. Not sure how far back this goes. The originals—Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, Angel, Iceman—fit Stan’s bill. Later Jean would add telepathy to her telekinesis, but that was explained as something given to her by Xavier. (The Mimic had multiple powers, but they were manifestations of his single ability.) The first time it might be said to seriously fall apart was Nightcrawler, who was not originally conceived as a mutant. He was blue and furry with glowing eyes and fangs, AND he had malformed hands and feet, AND could cling to any surface, AND had a prehensile tail, AND (the big one) could teleport. Invisiblity in shadow was added later. Taking it all in, my advice to anyone creating mutants is AVOID “AND”. If your character can’t be described in a single clause, rethink. And spare me the lazy writing of “secondary mutations”.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31761
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| Posted: 23 August 2025 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 2
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“secondary mutations”
****
This is where I really started losing interest. If you want to tell a Stupendo
story but he has to have powers he never had before, maybe it shouldn’t be
a Stupendo story. Maybe create another character with those powers and
have them join Stupendo.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135159
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| Posted: 23 August 2025 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 3
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I’m reminded of when another writer took on a character I had created. Backstory changed. Powers changed. Only the name remained. Why?
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31761
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| Posted: 23 August 2025 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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Obviously you didn’t create the character correctly.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8298
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| Posted: 23 August 2025 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 5
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I hate secondary mutation.
If you wanted to write a character with that power, CREATE them. Don’t ruin
an existing one, especially when that new power seems to come with a
personality change.
Grant Morrison’s run had some interesting story concepts. But what he did
to the characters was unforgivable, and seems to have become the
template for most stories since.
What happened with Hickman and since I have no idea about. The
descriptions of overall status, the size of character list I just could not
follow.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16659
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| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 2:14am | IP Logged | 6
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JB: "...The Mimic had multiple powers, but they were manifestations of his single ability..."
It was interesting that as first introduced, the Mimic was not actually a mutant. He was the first non-mutant allowed membership in the X-Men, as I recall. It was retconned many years later, though, and said he was a mutant, after all.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 24 August 2025 at 2:19am
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Stéphane Garrelie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4279
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| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 7
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Puck. I know, it hurts.I wasn't happy with that, and i am a Bill Mantlo fan. Even a great talent makes sometime bad choices. I wasn't happy with what Steve Englehart, another of my favorite writers, made of the kree. I see it as not being the intent of Lee and Kirby for them, and something more ordinary. Like making (Harrass) the SHIELD technologie alien in origine. Or Tony Stark the son of an extraterrestrial.. or.. wasn't he also an artificiel being at one point in recent years? Or any nonsense of this kind. Extrapolate the original or make a new character. Extrapolation can go far, as far as Phoenix for Jean, but it needs to be story-driven.
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 24 August 2025 at 2:36pm
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17775
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| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 8
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Sub-Mariner's ankle wings are what make him a mutant, right? All of his other abilities are a result of his human/Atlantean heritage.
Speaking of which... I like those other, seldom-used abilities Namor possesses that some comic book readers find silly.
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Evan S. Kurtz
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 174
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| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | 9
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Don't forget the more recent case of Cassie Sandsmark, who went from being an ordinary kid to looking tall and curvy, because, you know, it's really important that our 13 year old super heroes have sex appeal, I guess.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2251
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| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 10
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Don't forget the more recent case of Cassie Sandsmark, who went from being an ordinary kid to looking tall and curvy, because, you know, it's really important that our 13 year old super heroes have sex appeal, I guess.
__________________________
And losing her virginity to Superboy. Marvel and DC comics have turned into a place where creators are allowed to tell their bad fan fiction stories with the Big 2 characters.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135159
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| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 11
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Marvel and DC have been expensive fanzines for a looooonng time!
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2251
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| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | 12
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I really hope that one day an EIC would be appointed to Marvel and DC who would have the balls to tell their creators and editors to make (without an in comic explanation) non cannon and ignore (and never mention again) any past stories that have either damaged the characters, moved too far away from the character's creator's original intent, or ideas that just doesn't work for said characters REGARDLESS of how popular or critically acclaimed those past stories are (or the backlash from long time older fans) and stick to their guns. At the most, relagate those past stories to either "What If", "Imaginary", or "Legend" stories.
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