| Author |
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 19 October 2018 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 1
|
post reply
|
|
I think the difference between when you first started doing Hidden Years and now is that readers are more accustomed to these kind of alternate universe books that branch off from a specific point in time and offer a creator's vision for how it could have gone. ••• HIDDEN YEARS wasn’t an alternate reality. It was more like THE INVADERS was to THE AVENGERS.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
|
| Posted: 19 October 2018 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 2
|
post reply
|
|
Many team books and single heroes had a penultimate villain. The FF has Dr. Doom, Spider-Man has Doc Ock, Batman has the Joker and Superman gets to keep Lex Luthor, I have always considered Magneto to be the X-Men's equivalent. Grousing about Magneto being an actual villain seems to be another indicator that you are no longer fit for comics. And I realize Magneto along with the White Queen are not even shadows of their former selves, but for crying out loud, Tennessee Williams didn't write comics so why all the desire to blur the lines between good and evil? Getting angry about classic villains has got to be an indication of a missing chromosome or something.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15953
|
| Posted: 19 October 2018 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 3
|
post reply
|
|
Penultimate villain? PENTULTIMATE???
Doom is second to none!
Learn that now!!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Richard White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1058
|
| Posted: 19 October 2018 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 4
|
post reply
|
|
For what it is worth I absolutely love JB's Wonder Woman run!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Darren Taylor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6024
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 5:11am | IP Logged | 5
|
post reply
|
|
Johns good-sized run on Wonder Woman I bought in its entirety, as it came out.
Both Wonder Woman and the Next Men were the only two times that I can recall when it took me a while to 'tune-in' to the style of one of John's series.
As I write this I fail to quantify the reasons for that but there must have been some expectation that I carried of -what- was 'Byrne' art and these two titles pushed those limits for me but after a few issues I was marveling at the art.
John seems to give each series its own unique texture/ambiance and I both love and respect that. Which in no way says I will automatically jibe with it right away.
Like with MOS. When I picked that up, it was less the (let us be honest) flat out amazing artwork that threw me but it seemed the storytelling had changed from what I had grown accustomed to. It was like reading a great Terry Pratchett novel one day and Tolkien the next.
In saying this, I in no way mean to imply a change in the level of effort on John's part.
Rather than that what I observe is an artist in evolution and when something evolves it removes its self from one sphere of influence to another. Which rather suggests that there are some things that get left behind. Those that get left behind can resent both the loss of something they once enjoyed and also the rather static reflection, apparent in the perfect glossy mirror that is nostalgia.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Leigh DJ Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1570
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 5:18am | IP Logged | 6
|
post reply
|
|
It’s occurred to me, that even tho I am swearing up and down that I will not harm these characters, for many readers a “reset” would do exactly that. There were, for instance, those who were furious when I restored Magneto to his villainous ways in HIDDEN YEARS ------------------------------------------------------------ --------- That is a problem JB. I see lots of comments from people about how they don't like to see Magneto going back to being just a 'boring villain'. Doom has been used as a 'hero' for the last few years and I can imagine people complaining if he went back to his roots.
The more I think about it, I think even your non-hardcore fans want to see your art again on a Marvel book but I'm not sure your writing style would fit in right now with what the regular non-fan readers are currently used to.
Apart from one or two comics (Al Ewing's current Hulk book is a marvelous mixture of monster and horror book) there is a lot of just crazy dumb crap out there that is really popular. All the things that you dislike are there is spades. Take, de-uniqueness of characters. It is just getting ridiculous. (some SPOILERS for current books upcoming)
Look at Thor where he's travelled to the far future and found the only other people alive are Wolverine (inhabited by the Phoenix force) and Dr Doom (who has the powers of Iron Fist, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange and the Starbrand). Look at new hot writer Donny Cates who created Cosmic Ghost Rider who is...Frank Castle in the future who has kidnapped Thanos as a baby to try and kill him before he becomes what he is. Having multiples and clones and alternate versions and Older versions of characters is now the new normal, not the thing you'd see in What If?
No matter how Elsewhen a book is, can it really live in a comics world where this stuff is what people are used to seeing? Are people going to think that your type of good old-fashioned super-hero stories are just quaint? :(
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 7
|
post reply
|
|
I guess "ultimate" would have worked just fine.
To expand on Darren's thoughts, I've thought that JB not only considers the art of a book he is doing, but also considers the narrative style. Great analogy regarding Pratchett to Tolkien. The "voice" a book that JB writes is usually distinct. Frankly, I am curious to see and "hear" how an Elsewhen book would turn out.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 8
|
post reply
|
|
Johns good-sized run on Wonder Woman...•• Longer than my original X-MEN run! ++++++ John seems to give each series its own unique texture/ambiance and I both love and respect that. Which in no way says I will automatically jibe with it right away. •• When I was a kid, Bob Kane was my favorite artist, by virtue of the fact that he drew my favorite character. Of course, I did not know "Bob Kane" was effectively a house name, and the real work was being done by many different artists. I just assumed, in my innocence, that "Kane" modified his style to fit each particular story. I noted that he kept what I considered his best style for the annuals, presumably since they were special. I had no way of knowing, back then, that the annuals were reprints, and the best "Bob Kane" was actually Dick Sprang. (Coincidentally, he'd drawn the first Batman story I'd ever read, which probably helped cement his as the best style.) In any case, this planted a nearly subconscious need in my brain -- a need to give each project I worked on its own visual identity.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 6:24am | IP Logged | 9
|
post reply
|
|
I see lots of comments from people about how they don't like to see Magneto going back to being just a 'boring villain'. Doom has been used as a 'hero' for the last few years and I can imagine people complaining if he went back to his roots. •• A Magneto who is a "boring villain" is a Magneto who is being written poorly. +++ Look at Thor where he's travelled to the far future and found the only other people alive are Wolverine (inhabited by the Phoenix force) and Dr Doom (who has the powers of Iron Fist, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange and the Starbrand). Look at new hot writer Donny Cates who created Cosmic Ghost Rider who is...Frank Castle in the future who has kidnapped Thanos as a baby to try and kill him before he becomes what he is. Having multiples and clones and alternate versions and Older versions of characters is now the new normal, not the thing you'd see in What If? •• "Every issue is the first issue for someone" is apparently an alien concept, these days. Whenever I write exposition, there are invariably complaints. “We already know this!” cry the dwindling audience, as they wonder why they dwindle.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Oliver Denker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 August 2018
Location: Germany
Posts: 224
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 10
|
post reply
|
|
"Look at Thor where he's travelled to the far future and found the only other people alive are Wolverine (inhabited by the Phoenix force) and Dr Doom (who has the powers of Iron Fist, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange and the Starbrand). Look at new hot writer Donny Cates who created Cosmic Ghost Rider who is...Frank Castle in the future who has kidnapped Thanos as a baby to try and kill him before he becomes what he is. Having multiples and clones and alternate versions and Older versions of characters is now the new normal, not the thing you'd see in What If?"
What? Man, I don't regret having stopped reading Marvel.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 591
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 11
|
post reply
|
|
"I can imagine people complaining if he went back to his roots."
Of course they will. It's important to remember that while every issue is somebody's first, every issue is also somebody's favorite.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 20 October 2018 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 12
|
post reply
|
|
Yes, I did get a letter to SUPERMAN excoriating me for leaving out an incredibly important character—Beppo the Supermonkey.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
