Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 5 Next >>
Topic: Public Domain vs. Corporate Life Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2390
Posted: 08 December 2024 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Captain (Shazam) Marvel is already in the public domain.  So are Plastic Man and Archie Andrews.  Nobody has dared publish competing stories on them, so maybe nothing much will change in 2035.

Trademark seems to trump copyright.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Steve Coates
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 November 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 818
Posted: 09 December 2024 at 1:13am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Although copyright does expire, it is always the holders, until it does expire and can be defended even after years of infringement. 

A Trademark will be considered abandoned if not vigorously defended immediately upon detection. And is much easier to demonstrate infringement.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Scott Gray
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 45
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Eric Jansen: Captain (Shazam) Marvel is already in the public domain.  So are Plastic Man and Archie Andrews.  Nobody has dared publish competing stories on them, so maybe nothing much will change in 2035.

*****************

I think Batman and Superman might be a different story. Guess we'll find out in ten years.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8682
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I'd love it if someone published new Captain Marvel stories, actually using that name and not Shazam for the character.


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16518
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Eric Jansen: "...Captain (Shazam) Marvel is already in the public domain.  So are Plastic Man and Archie Andrews..."

Much more complicated than that.  Currently, no, those characters are NOT in the public domain. Some if the earliest comic books stories featuring them are no longer protected by copyright. Not the same thing. The characters themselves are still protected by both copyright and trademark,  and as far as copyright protection,  will be for a number of years still to come. It's weird, but think of it as how the Max Fleisher Superman cartoons are public domain,  but Superman as a character is not (yet).

And as for DC deciding after decades to stop calling the original Captain Marvel by his actual name, even inside the comic book itself,  they brought that on themselves,  ironically through their battle with Fawcett Comics over copyright infringement.  

DC/National Comics doggedly went after Fawcett claiming copyright infringement of Fawcett's Captain Marvel character and that of Superman. Of course, most superheroes were derivative of Superman,  but DV seemed to go after Fawcett the hardest because, frankly, for a time. Captain Marvel outsold Superman. Interestingly, as I recall, Captain Marvel actually flew before Superman (who leaped very high, not flew, until his cartoons).

By the mid-1950s, with the comics market in a slump, Fawcett no longer saw it profitable to keep publishing Captain Marvel,  anyway, and ceased publishing the line of titles. Trademarks are not copyrights, though people confuse this all the time. So, Fawcett retained its copyright,  but you have to use a trademark or risk losing it. Since they no longer published a title "Captain Marvel", they lost the trademark. 

By the mid-1960s, with the trademark now expired on Captain Marvel,  Myron Fass's M.F. Publications  grabbed it, along with other names for which the trademark lapsed (you can't copyright a name, only trademark it), and put out a short-lived "Captain Marvel" character of its own. The company didn't last long, and Marvel swooped in and trademarked "Captain Marvel," which it has kept up to this very day.

In the 1970s,  DC originally licensed, not outright owned, the Fawcett version of Captain Marvel. But, due to their own legal actions against Fawcettyears earlier, ironically (perhaps deservedly), DC could not call the new title "Captain Marvel," though the character could be called that in the comic itself.  So, they took a word most associated with the character,  the magic word he used to transform from Billy Batson into the superhero, and the nsme of the wizard that granted him his powers, "Shazam" and made that the trademarked title.

Many of kids and adults since the 1970s confused the title with the character,  especially with the Saturday morning live action program being prominent, and thought the character's name was actually "Shazam." After decades, DC apparently realized Marvel was never letting go of the trademark and officially renamed Captain Marvel as "Shazam". 

It's a convoluted mess, but technically DC can still call Captain Marvel "Captain Marvel," but they can't have a title by that name due to trademark law. They just got tired if having to dance around the legal intricacies. 

One last thing about copyright law on entertainment media that is similar,  but not comic book related: The Beverly Hillbillies first couple of seasons fell into public domain for some reason (I haven't looked deep into why). So, you can find those seasons in various cheap home video compilations.  However,  the music used in those episodes,  including the theme song, is still copyright protected,  which means the companies releasing those episodes on home video have to replace that audio. And later seasons are still copyright protected. 

Ah, the complexities of copyrights.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16518
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Brian Floyd: "...I'd love it if someone published new Captain Marvel stories, actually using that name and not Shazam for the character..."

Well, if they call the book "Captain Marvel", they'll be hearing from Disney/Marvel. And, though they could still name a character "Captain Marvel" technically,  as you could "Superman",  (again, names can't be copyrighted), the trademark issue makes it impossible to market the character by that name, and still opens up one to legal troubles over marketplace confusion (which is why trademarks exist), that it isn't really worth the effort.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2215
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

there was that recent Horror movie version of Winnie the pooh. What a
nightmare. Anyways, that's my concern when things go public
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16518
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The point about these crass horror movies neglect to examine all sides of the situation. Once something enters the public domain and everbody can utilize it, that will run the gamut, from atrocious to sublime. Just because one party produces trash with the property doesn't mean this is the only result of properties entering the public domain.

And it doesn't mean that those who own a copyright will do right by that creation, either -- Most times with these iconic characters its not the original creators who even own or control the creation, anyway,  but a large corporation who doesn't necessarily alway respect the creator's original intentions.


Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8165
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 1:44am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"I wonder if Marvel will be so bold as to publish their own version of Batman?"

--

I felt that way when I saw JRjr draw PUNISHER/BATMAN, including the Joker in a Mafia suit.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133707
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

It would be a great disservice to fans if everybody and his dog started cranking out PD versions of these characters. Quality would be all over the map, consistency nonexistent.

Can we not show a little respect for the creators AND the characters?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Daniel Gillotte
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2685
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I have no real issue with creators and even creator family's retaining rights but corporate control becomes another matter to me.
There has to be some sensical approach that honors creators but also allows things to pass into public domain. 

We wouldn't have any early Disney if he hadn't "robbed" the public domain so when do Disney's creations fall into PD for future generations to build on and play with?
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Joseph Vecchio
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 October 2024
Posts: 16
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

In the decades since DC let the genii out of the bottle, with the likes of MAN OF STEEL and YEAR ONE, abandoning decades of established lore—accidentally in the case of that second series—has become SOP. Stunts designed to fool gullible collectors have seen characters become wildly inconsistent and sometimes unrecognizable.
Reading this I remember your interview on the Today Show, when it was announced you were taking over the reins for Superman, where Jane Pauley (?) asked you what right you had to tamper with "an American institution" and your answer was straightforward: "DC comics, which owns Superman, has the right simply because they own Superman, right?".  But of course this has always been the issue between the artists and the corporate management, as I don't need to remind anyone here.


Knowing who the characters were from month to month was an important part of bringing the readers back. The song was more important than the singer.
IIRC, Marvel (at around that time, anyway) made it a point to have the characters explain the character's powers in context every issue so that a new person would know what they were.  Makes sense from one point of view, but for me (and I assume I'm not alone here) it was a bit annoying.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 5 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login