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Ed Love
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Posted: 31 October 2012 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Jesus - So, what's been your favorite Doc novel so far?

Not all the Shadow novels have been reprinted yet, but there's enough to keep you busy for a couple of years.
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Andrew Hess
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Posted: 31 October 2012 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Jesus - 

Are you getting these pulp books online? Wouldn't mind getting some of them myself.
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Michael Hogan
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Posted: 31 October 2012 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Sue Grafton's V is for Vengeance.

Edited by Michael Hogan on 31 October 2012 at 8:28pm
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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 31 October 2012 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Ed Love

Jesus - So, what's been your favorite Doc novel so far?

I think Man of the Bronze will always be one my favorite because it has many elements that fell away in later novels. Things like having the full team of five associates around, Doc's thinking and emotional processes being a mystery to the reader (the later novels have Doc expressing self-doubt and sweating in fear and I don't dig that so much). There's also Doc's trilling which he did when surprised or immensily intrigued. Didn't do this much in the later post-war books.

I prefer the pre-war books. More wildly escapist.

I'm at book 160 and Renny, Long Tom and Johnny don't figure in the adventures much anymore but Pat is still around.

The Three Devils is a great novel of the war period but I miss the Lost World themes such as those featured in Land of Always Night.

Dagger in the Sky was a good mystery with a sound resolution, Resurection Day was almost surreal, Fortress of Solitude built up Doc's background activities a little more and how he went about maintaining his enhanced skills. The Lost Giant and Violent Night are fast-paced spy-genre treatments where Doc rescues Churchill and captures Hitler who is disguised as a redheaded Englishman. In one of the novels Doc introduces himself as "Savage. Doc Savage". Few things here and there make me wonder whether Ian Fleming had had some exposure to Doc's adventures.

I suppose some inconsistencies are to be expected over a 15-year monthly publishing schedule, but some of them come off as efforts to curry the favor of the audience that doesn't accept a superman.

I have to say that my run so far has made me wish Dent had an editor to work with that made things a bit more consistent: sometimes Doc is 6 feet sometimes he's 6'8". Sometimes he escapes a trap where a half ton block of stone is dropped on him or he whips 6 strong men at once and then struggles with a single man. Sometimes he owns the building that houses his headquarters and sometimes he appears to be a co-owner. Sometimes he's handsome without being pretty, and sometimes he's not actually handome but merely rugged.

The later novels show more mature writing, more attention to imagery and word pictures, but there seemed to be an attempt to make Doc less the Superman than he was in the earlier novels -- even discredit that he was a Superman.

By book 160 Doc has more or less admitted to himself that he's primarily an excitement-addicted adventurer that sees his other ventures in medice, surgery and technology as hobbies. Or that he is addicted to gadgets and often falls into a trap by using a gadget instead of a simpler means.

On another think, much as I love James Bama's paperback covers, I feel they have done a visual injustice to Doc. The torn shirt and Jorhpur's pretty much give him a superhero costume image, whereas in the books he dressed as an elegant business man about town. Also, the Bama covers make him blond whereas his hair was a shade darker than his skin which was deeply bronze.

Andrew Hess

Are you getting these pulp books online? Wouldn't mind getting some of them myself.

I have a full paperback set -- and have picked up some of the recent two-novels packages with original typesetting and illustrations, a real gas -- but my current reading is in electronic format on my iPhone with PDF reader.

Email me at garcia_jesus@sympatico.ca for more info.

 



Edited by Jesus Garcia on 31 October 2012 at 9:50pm
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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 31 October 2012 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

George Lakoff's Don't Think of an Elephant
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Ed Love
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Jesus - I think some of the inconsistencies cropped up because of some of the ghost writers and he did have different editors that influenced things such as the type of stories to tell. And, then some was just in the form of settling into the characters. The first couple of stories, he doesn't have a code against killing. Those tend to be the same stories that have Renny taller than Doc and Johnny almost as tall.

I find myself torn on the Doc novels at this point. The pre-War are more fantastic and what you typically associate with Doc Savage. But, the War and post-War Docs have a slicker, more sophisticated writing style, Dent's brief tutelage of writing for Black Mask paying off. Certain passages are almost poetic. The stories are more down to earth, and the stakes of success and failure are heightened. The humor is more wry than slapstick. Get a little tired of seeing the Monk-Ham combo in almost every story though, would have appreciated a different mix-up of the aides a little more often. I heartily recommend Dent's mystery novels Lady Afraid, Lady to Kill, Dead at Takeoff (takes place almost entirely on an airplane trip). Altus books also recently published a collection of Dent's Blond Adder short stories that are pretty cool. He is one of Dent's gadget heroes, but a little more down to earth.

Will Murray is currently writing new Docs. The new ones tend to be a little too padded with purple prose and trying to hard to include everything plus the kitchen sink in each novel. Enjoyable, nonetheless.
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Ed Love
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Andrew - If you're interested in various pulp stories, check out altuspress.com. They have reprinted a wide variety of collections of little known characters by many of the top popular pulp writers. There's also a few all new stories such as the new Will Murray Doc novels.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

About to start POTATOES ARE CHEAPER, by Max Shulman, father of Dobie Gillis.
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 01 November 2012 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Looking for something to read tonight with the power out, I just came across HG Wells WAR OF THE WORLDS which I bought a few years ago but have never read. Whenever I read by candlelight, older books just seem more appropriate.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 November 2012 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Finished the Shulman book in no time flat, so cast about for something with a little more meat to it. Remembered a while back I had picked up IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE, Sinclair Lewis' cautionary tale from 1935, about the rise of a Fascist government in Depression weary America. Having just read ELMER GANTRY and still having Lewis' rythmes in my head, this seemed a good choice.
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 02 November 2012 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

i've heard very good things about that book, JB, and will be interested in your reaction to it.
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Andrew Hess
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Posted: 04 November 2012 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

56) "Dr. No" by Ian Fleming, read by Simon Vance

Still working my way thru the Bond series:
Bond is sent away to Jamaica (again) on a seemingly-frivoless assignment, to recuperate from his last book's cliffhanger, which turns out to be a hidden and nefarious plot by an inscrutable Chinese mastermind to sabotage US missiles.

The synopsis alone is very off-putting: a villain harkening to the Fu Manchu Chinese stereo-types of the early part of the century, trying to punish the White Man's World. (I know Fleming's villains are meant to be over the top, but still.)

However, Fleming, in the space of a paragraph, also manages to insult not only Chinese people but also Blacks and Jews (and maybe Syrians, depending on how you read it). That happened early on in the book, and put me on guard thru the rest of the book. Read very much like a rich white man writing to stereo-types without any depth to the story. Fleming is not even saved by the return appearance of Quarrel, a Black native of Jamaica who helps Bond throughout but is still paper-thin.
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