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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 05 March 2024 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | 1
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As a tv show with strange ideas Doom Patrol worked, yet I don't think they needed to be 'the' Doom Patrol... possibly the whole thing should've been handled like Watchmen which went from being the Charlton characters to not them just similar...
That's possibly a common mistake where someone takes something existing and then uses it in the negative senses of 'uses'... they just want a ready-made platform for their ideas rather than having ideas which came from the existing characters and situation. Afterward the 'used' is tossed away until the next 'user' type exhumes it (or tries to)? If we're lucky it's picked up by a clean-up sort who will restore and set the whole thing back on the tracks from which it might go forward again.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 06 March 2024 at 3:07am
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Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1529
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| Posted: 06 March 2024 at 1:23am | IP Logged | 2
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I recall watching a speech Morrison made high out of his mind at some convention in front of devil horns, rambling about how he's been to other planets and whatnot.
Getting "Church Lady" vibes from this.
You have every right not to like it, but Morrison did a good job in those books. The Doom Patrol are a weird bunch. The X-Men too. It's a valid take, they're not supposed to be the JLA (which Morrison handled accordingly).
Even Doom Patrol creator Arnold Drake thought so.
Hey, it's a little girl who looks like an old lady. Hey, it's a telepath who is just a brain. Hey, it's a guy who looks like a giant bird.
Reductio ad absurdum.
"Hey, it'a guy who shoots lasers out of his eyes", "Hey, it's a man made of steel".
Boring.
His version is so much better than what it became.
JB's version came after Morrison's.
Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 06 March 2024 at 2:15am
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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 06 March 2024 at 2:37am | IP Logged | 3
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Sue. Redefined the character and added so much, without trashing what came before. There’re so many more great examples but Byrne’s Invisible WOMAN is a masterclass on how to handle established characters.
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Ben Stamer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2023
Location: United States
Posts: 54
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| Posted: 06 March 2024 at 3:06am | IP Logged | 4
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JB's version came after Morrison's.
•••
I never mentioned Morrison in my first post. I mentioned him after Mr. Byrne's reference of his character. The connection is that some time after Bryne, DC tripled down on the weirdness and seemed to set the franchise in that manner.
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Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1529
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| Posted: 06 March 2024 at 3:12am | IP Logged | 5
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The connection is that some time after Bryne, DC tripled down on the weirdness and seemed to set the franchise in that manner.
They tripled down on the weirdness?
Wow, then Morrison must've been pretty tame after all, devil horns and all.
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5715
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| Posted: 06 March 2024 at 3:13am | IP Logged | 6
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It's practically impossible yo do better than the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four, but in one respect JB absolutely improved, and perhaps perfected a character. I'm talking about the Invisible Girl/Woman. I don't blame Lee/Kirby so much as they were stuck with some old fashioned ideas of women in comics and rules of how to handle them. JB modernized Sue in such a way that she hasn't needed modernizing since.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 06 March 2024 at 3:17am | IP Logged | 7
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I thought Susan was improved back in #220-221! I know those two issues aren't all that highly regarded and don't seem to get counted as part of the Byrne 'era', but at the age I read it at I thought it was great and that Sue was the star of the story!
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3955
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| Posted: 06 March 2024 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | 8
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Depends what counts as "Extrapolation". There are characters that JB didn't create but helped shape into the characters we came to know and love - like Wolverine, Frankie Raye and Phoenix. Those and She-Hulk would probably be my favourites.
Superman doesn't really count, imo, as JB pretty much remained true to his established character throughout his run. There was just a lot of (necessary) housecleaning that unfortunately was unmade shortly after he left the title.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: 07 March 2024 at 12:00am | IP Logged | 9
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It's a good point, Petter, but based on Mark's original post, I think it's a broad
definition. I think any work JB had a hand in plotting, writing and drawing is in
bounds. I do lean towards work that he was artist/writer, so Superman is in
bounds for me. His version of Superman is my favorite take on the character.
But of all the non-JB creations, I think Fantastic Four is the winner. He
captured the intent of the creators while modernizing and adding even more
depth to the characters.
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6550
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| Posted: 07 March 2024 at 12:08am | IP Logged | 10
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I think the Byrne FF is everything you say, Tim— the original team
transposed into modern times —fully intact!
Edited by Mark Haslett on 07 March 2024 at 12:10am
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Brian Hughes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 318
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| Posted: 07 March 2024 at 2:08am | IP Logged | 11
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Gladiator!
Prior to FF 249, Gladiator was just a Superman copy to me. which is what he was supposed to be.
But JB's take on him in that two issue arc lit a fire in me where I wanted to see more of Gladiator, working on behalf of the Empire.
JB's description of his powers was so perfect. It is just a shame that others did little to make Gladiator as interesting.
I wanted more. I did not get it where Gladiator is concerned.
Superman though. . . a good couple years worth. Thank you JB.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 March 2024 at 3:20am | IP Logged | 12
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My work on Gladiator was undone, wasn’t it?
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