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James C. Taylor
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 1  

 Chris Hutton wrote:
...that a trip to the Snopes website...

Chris, you have just shown part of the problem. Snopes, in the end, is just another website. How do you decide what website you do believe and what one not to? (This is not a question of Snopes's accuracy, just pointing out that you should look at all authorities with skepticism.)
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 2  

James, to its' credit, even www.snopes.com suggests that you not rely solely on their site for accuracy. There's even a test page they put up to prove that point.
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Bill Lukash
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 3  

I just went to the Games Workshop entry at Wikipedia for the fun of it.  In the first section there are 3 (that I know of) statements that are complete speculation by the authors.  This one in particular stands out.  "By the end of the decade, though, the company was having problems with falling profits being blamed on collectible card games such as Magic: The Gathering and Pokemon."  Where did this come from?  Who blames collectible card games?  Was it Games Workshop itself?  Joe hobby shop owner?  Did GW profits fall, and if so, was it due to collectible card games?  How the heck do I know this isn't a load of crap?  This is really sloppy research.

On the other hand I looked up hydrogeology and it was reasonabley well done if not terribly informative to me...but its what do, so I expected that.  I wouldn't have a problem if a non-hydrogeologist read this entry for their first experience in the field, although it is a little dry....but okay!

The difference?

JB and GW are fan oriented subjects, hydrogeology is an actual field of study.  I suggest approaching all subjects as a field of study.  I study groundwater on my own time...I can interact with the subject and get to know it.  I can't read the minds of the corporate leaders at Games Workshop, or John Byrne.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 4  

Just because Wikipedia allows anyone to write their articles does not mean Wikipedia has no obligation to provide accurate information. That article was tinged with criticisms and speculation. 
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 5  

To those who are encouraging participation on the JB Wiki entry did try to take part, and it became agonizingly frustrating trying to make even simple phrases more neutral, evenhanded when there was always somebody else determined to portray Byrne as a vindictive egomaniac. I knew by the gargantuan size the article had grown to that at some point another more sane admin would wipe the entire thing, so I left.

Long story short : if you want to edit that article, be prepared for endless inane arguments with the same sort of trolls on other forums (and here too.)


Edited by Joe Zhang on 15 September 2005 at 9:56am
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Lewis Himelhoch
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 6  

    Those of us who are  already familiar with John Byrne and his work and respect him are unlikely to be influenced by inaccurate information on a website even one such as Wikipdedia, as popular as it is becoming.

    Those who already have made up their minds that they don't like John Byrne will ignore anything positive and just nod along with anything negative. Trying to change their minds is pretty much as pointless as banging your head against a wall. It really feels a lot better when you stop and spend time on something more productive.

   This leaves those who are not familiar with John Byrne's work and history and might be fairly new to comics. While younger readers might not have a healthy sense of skepticism yet, hopefully those with a reasonable level of experience and maturity know to not accept all facts from just one source. Perhaps the best  thing to do would be to add a link to the "Who is John Byrne?" part of the FAQ from the byrnerobotics site to the Wikipedia entry. If there are any inaccurate stories that are being frequently repeated perhaps a list of "John Byrne Myths" might be appropriate to add to the FAQ as well. Of course, as we all know urban legends tend to gain lives of their own regardless of fact.

   Oh well. Controversy sells newspapers. Maybe it will sell some comics. Any predictions on how long before a "Comics bad boy JB feuds with Wikipedia" headline lands somewhere on the internet?

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 7  

"Those of us who are  already familiar with John Byrne and his work and respect him are unlikely to be influenced by inaccurate information on a website even one such as Wikipdedia, as popular as it is becoming."

Hypothetically, what if a studio exec is considering making the Next Men movie. He is told that the creator needs some creative control, wonders what the guy's background, and looks up Wikipedia. Based on the Wiki entry that makes Byrne look like a unprofessional, self-absorbed prima donna, would the executive even think of making the movie?

Wikipedia isn't as harmless as you are making it out to be.


Edited by Joe Zhang on 15 September 2005 at 10:33am
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Todd Hembrough
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 8  

"self-absorbed prima donna"


Like that would stop a studio executive!!!
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John McMahon
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 9  

Any exec using Wiki to make descisions like that is clearly a cluess idiot.
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Eugene Nylander
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 10  

This 'two sides to every story' attitude does nothing to help
anyone searching for the truth - and even less to stop bad
people get away with spreading harmful gossip and lies about
an indivual.

You people are way too accepting
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Lewis Himelhoch
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 11  

I tend to accept things I can't change. Inaccurate information based on personal bias dates back at least as far as Suetonius. (And now some irony that will probably get me in trouble. Oh well.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 12  

Nice, Lewis.
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