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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31172
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 1
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No, Todd. Now you're just trying to get me in trouble.
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Chris Hutton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11667
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 2
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JB is full of midochlorians.
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Darragh Greene
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 3
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Tom Melly: Everyone is indeed entitled to an opinion. No opinion can be "wrong"
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Wrong; you're confusing or equivocating between the political/legal entitlement to an opinion in free democratic socities and an epistemic entitlement to be right.
If you have an entitlement to be right, then so do I; but if your opinion is that the sun revolves around the earth and mine the opposite, then we can't both be right or the iron laws of excluded middle and non-contradiction are violated. Violate them and you descend into nonsense.
Therefore you are not entitled to your opinion being right.
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Ian Evans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004
Posts: 2433
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 4
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Todd wrote:
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Oxygen binds to hemoglobin.
Fact or theory?
Starts out as a hypothesis and then becomes a fact.
QED
edit. I dont know why I bothered to even post this. Everyone who 'knows' me on the board knows what I do. Check my profile, and you can see my 'qualifications' to be party to any scientific conversation. The 'debate' that Tishman seems to want to have is laughable, that nothing is knowable, there are no facts, every fact is inherently biased, etc.
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In truth, Todd, I was waiting with some degree of anticipation to see how you responded to Tishman's dismissal of your post, and only a drama class I had to teach got in the way...childish, I know, but then.
Edited by Ian Evans on 22 September 2005 at 8:45am
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16501
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 5
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
| ...It's even to the point where a president will say science class is up for argument and "informed" decisions. |
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It depends on what the definition of "is" is. ;-)
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Ian Evans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004
Posts: 2433
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 6
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Darragh wrote:
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but if your opinion is that the sun revolves around the earth and mine the opposite, then we can't both be right
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Nor even right that your belief IS an opinion. It is a falsehood. That is a different matter. Thinking something to be true in error is not an opinion, since an opinion is, by definition, debatable.
Ah Darragh, remember the old days, eh? We were happy then, 'hough we had nothing....
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 7
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Opinion is a matter of interpreting and judging the facts. When people
assert different sets of basic "facts," we have a problem.
There can be disagreement about whether it was right or wrong for
something to have happened. But in the end it happened or it didn't; if we
disagree on that question, we're in trouble.
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Darragh Greene
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 8
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Entitlement to your opinion
Addendum:
I) Having refuted your right to your opinion being true, it is now time to refute the notion that because you are legally/politically entitled to your opinion, I must listen to you.
No, I haven't the time. There are lots of people with lots of opinions on diverse matters; if I stopped to listen to them all, I'd never be finished. Therefore, your entitlement to your opinion does not entitle you to be listened to.
ii) Does your entitlement to your opinion include the right to be left with your opinion?
No; for if you're crossing the road, and it is your opinion that it is safe to cross, but I see that your opinion is erroneous, and I hold you back from being run down by a speeding car, will you blame me for not allowing you to continue to cross the road according to your erroneous opinion of safety? No; so you are not entitled to be left with your opinion when false.
The truth matters.
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Darragh Greene
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 9:08am | IP Logged | 9
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It's true, Ian, ignorance is bliss; but we must suffer into knowledge. The Fall, consciousness, brings suffering and death; but reason is the noblest faculty our species, homo sapiens, has; that's why it's maddening to see it perverted so by the sophist vermin that infest modern academia.
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Todd Hembrough
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 4172
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 10
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Ian,
Sorry to let you down regarding my response to Tishman. I have
long since learned to take a deep breath, and let things go. It
is hard in the face of blatant irrationality, and doing so makes me
respect JB all the more, since the vermin he deals with are attacking
him personally.
Todd
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Todd Hembrough
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 4172
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 11
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Darragh's posts are the only ones that constantly drive me to www.m-w.com to find out exactly what he is saying.
Having done so, I appreciate his presence he on the board a great deal,
and I would do so even if I happened to disagree with him. (which
in this case I do not).
Thanks for elevating the conversation.
Todd
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Darragh Greene
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
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| Posted: 22 September 2005 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 12
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You're welcome, Todd!
I try to be clear in what I write because I truly believe that if I can't say it clearly, then I don't understand it myself.
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Topic Closed)
