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James C. Taylor
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 1  

 Jacob P Secrest wrote:
Honestly, I think there could [have] been a better solution than that.

As long as the one or two obsessives who live to slander / libel John are alive, I really don't think there is.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 2  

From personal experience if I had to correct something like

"known for his use of the "N-Word" and hatred for blonde latino women"

Wiki would overrule my deletion of the sentence. I would have settle for something inane like :

"Byrne has used the N-Word once as part of an analogy illustrating incorrect terminology. He has a distaste for the look of blonde dye jobs on Latinas."

And I would have to fight for that change for days on end. And then Wikipedia doesn't even care if that has nothing to do with why Byrne is a notable comic book creator. It shouldn't even be there but you Wiki admins don't care.




Edited by Joe Zhang on 15 September 2005 at 1:49pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 3  

Gamaliel Snapdragon: The system is not perfect, but in general Wikipedians believe that we can put up with a little fuss to preserve the open nature of the project.

****

With ponderous slowness, the internet is becoming a place where people are actually held accountable for their statements. Lawsuits have been launched, and with some degree of success. When Wikipedia finds itself on the receiving end of someone's massive libel suit, will you consider that "a little fuss"?

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Jacob P Secrest
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 4  

 James C. Taylor wrote:

As long as the one or two obsessives who live to slander / libel John are
alive, I really don't think there is.

There are ways, but I doubt a complete reworking of Wikipedia will be
seen in the near future.
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thomas denton
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 5  

"So just to be clear....it's OK to skirt the rules when you need to protect your ability to slander (and lets not kid ourselves, this is slander, pure and simple)"

Slander is spoken, this being "in print," it'd be libel if anything of that nature.

As an aside, who would think would be libel? If I had a big white wall in a public place and invited others to write whatever they felt on it, would I then be libel because I 'published' any potential disparaging remarks?


Edited by thomas denton on 15 September 2005 at 2:16pm
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Jeremy Nichols
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 6  

What I don't get is how they can use the X-Men image, or any
other copyrighted images they may be using. Are they legally
licensing the use of that image?

Frankly, it blows me away that we're even allowed to use/post
all these copyrighted images on this board, too. They're all
violations of copyright. I would think that, in the interest of
protecting their copyrights, Marvel and DC lawyers would have
to push the C&D letters.
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James C. Taylor
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 7  

While I am not sure if Fair Use covers Wikipedia, I believe the majority of usage here falls under that umbrella.
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Jeremy Nichols
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 8  

I seriously doubt that Fair Use covers this. I really can't see
how, but I would be very open to learning about it.
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 9  

Jeremy Nichols: Frankly, it blows me away that we're even allowed to use/post all these copyrighted images on this board, too. They're all violations of copyright. I would think that, in the interest of protecting their copyrights, Marvel and DC lawyers would have to push the C&D letters.

While you may be right, I don't think it's in either Marvel or DC's best interests to do so when the majority of fan sites out there are using these images.  I had an Iron Man fan site back in the late 90's (a sister site to the Advanced Iron fanzine home page) and I received an e-mail from Marvel stating that I either had to conform to their site templates and use only images they provided or else they'd pursue legal action.  I know a few other people who got similar e-mails.  Nothing ever became of it that I know of, and I figure it's free advertisement for Marvel and DC, so why would they want to crack down on that?

I figure it this way: as long as the site isn't posting pictures of Spider-Man and the Black Cat doing the two-backed beast (which I've actually seen!), then why not leave them alone?  They're just expressing their appreciation for the comic.

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Chris Hutton
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 10  

Roger Ott: as long as the site isn't posting pictures of Spider-Man and the Black Cat doing the two-backed beast (which I've actually seen!)

*****************

I didn't know the art was finished on Spider-Man/Black Cat #4 yet!
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 11  

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include — 

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

 

I think Fair Use covers it.

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Jeremy Nichols
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 12  

Yes, and we, as fans, can see it that way. I would guess the
lawyers don't see it that way. Trademarks and copyrights can
go away, from what I understand, if they are not protected. So,
say 10,000 people make Iron Man sites and Marvel does
nothing. Then someone puts up a site with Iron Man in a helmet
and nothing more. Marvel sues, but if they didn't protect their
trademarks/copyrights elsewhere, they lose ground somewhat
in that suit. So while it's (possibly) good advertising, the
potential of losing the whole thing altogether negates that.

That's just what I've heard. I think we got a fairly prominent
lawyer on here, don't we? Love to hear the truth of it.
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