| Author |
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135168
|
| Posted: 24 August 2025 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 1
|
post reply
|
|
At the most, relagate those past stories to either "What If", "Imaginary", or "Legend" stories.••• You had me nodding in agreement until this. For the “plan” to work the break would have to be absolute and arbitrary. No whispers of the Before Time loitering around the edges.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 848
|
| Posted: 25 August 2025 at 2:26am | IP Logged | 2
|
post reply
|
|
Was always way more interesting to see the different ways a mutant could use that single power. Kitty’s air walking didn’t need to be a secondary mutation. It was a creative effect of her only mutation.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135168
|
| Posted: 25 August 2025 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 3
|
post reply
|
|
Most superpowers imply others in conjunction. Thus flight, for example, suggests some degree of invulnerability, or one would not be able to fly very high or very fast. Invulnerability seems also a component of super strength. Not much point in being strong enough to lift a car if one’s bones break under the weight!But those aren’t really instances of the “and” phenomenon. Like Kitty’s ability to float, they are extensions of the existing ability that make it functional.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Daniel Gillotte
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2740
|
| Posted: 25 August 2025 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 4
|
post reply
|
|
I hear what JB's saying and I think that this is largely the right track to take.
I do think there was something interesting about the concept of potential, occasional secondary mutations. Like there's an offshoot of Homo Superior that are evolving further than the others with additional mutations. Should all mutants have them? Heck no, but some? Sure, why not? IF it makes for interesting and compellnig stories and doesn't simply make everyone some kind of version of a limitless Ultra Boy.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16268
|
| Posted: 26 August 2025 at 1:15am | IP Logged | 5
|
post reply
|
|
QUOTE:
| Sub-Mariner's ankle wings are what make him a mutant, right? All of his other abilities are a result of his human/Atlantean heritage. |
|
|
I'm far from an expert in this, but I didn't think regular Atlanteans had the telepathic ability to talk to sea creatures that Namor has.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7043
|
| Posted: 26 August 2025 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 6
|
post reply
|
|
I would love to be able to gamble the future of comics on the idea of
arbitrarily returning all the super heroes back to the classic form and
getting them back into ALL ages stories easily available at random places
where people are still found. I’m not saying it’s possible, but I sure wish we
could try it and see what happens!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2253
|
| Posted: 26 August 2025 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 7
|
post reply
|
|
You had me nodding in agreement until this. For the “plan” to work the break would have to be absolute and arbitrary. No whispers of the Before Time loitering around the edges.
_________________________
Very true. A lot of fans and pros would inevitably try to shoehorn in those "What If", "Imaginary", or "Legend" stories into being cannon. So yeah, it's best to not even use those terms when describing those past stories. If those stories are ever reprinted just make it crystal clear to everyone that those stories are no longer cannon and are not to be referred to as either "What If", "Imaginary", or "Legend" stories. I think that there needs to be a new no holds bar rule in mainstream comics that no story (no matter how popular or critically acclaimed said story might be) is exempt from being made non cannon and that at any time for any reason the publisher could decide to make a past story non cannon.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2253
|
| Posted: 27 August 2025 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 8
|
post reply
|
|
Most superpowers imply others in conjunction. Thus flight, for example, suggests some degree of invulnerability, or one would not be able to fly very high or very fast. Invulnerability seems also a component of super strength. Not much point in being strong enough to lift a car if one’s bones break under the weight!
But those aren’t really instances of the “and” phenomenon. Like Kitty’s ability to float, they are extensions of the existing ability that make it functional.
_______________________
During his short lived Excalibur series from 2004, Claremont actually applied that type of creative thinking to Angel's powers. He showed how effective and tougher Angel's original powers made him. He showed that Angel didn't need to be turned into the flying version of Wolverine in order to kick butt in a fight. He expanded on the idea put forth by Stan Lee (with Angel having eagle eyes) and revealed that he had all of the powers/abilities of various birds and that he was a lot stronger than people thought. Those issues featuring Angel completely changed my opinion on Angel in regards to how effective the character could be in a fight against opponents who were either more powerful than him or had more powerful weapons. Best of all, he didn't over power Angel (which sadly is something that has been happening with a lot of Marvel characters these days).
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2253
|
| Posted: 27 August 2025 at 12:20am | IP Logged | 9
|
post reply
|
|
I would love to be able to gamble the future of comics on the idea of
arbitrarily returning all the super heroes back to the classic form and
getting them back into ALL ages stories easily available at random places
where people are still found. I’m not saying it’s possible, but I sure wish we
could try it and see what happens!
_____________________
So do I, but it won't happen as long as the Big 2 are run by selfish elitist editors and creators who think that the Marvel and DC superheroes should be aimed MOSTLY (if not SOLELY) at older teens and adults in order to justify them enjoying and working on superhero characters that were originally created for and aimed at kids and people of all ages.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135168
|
| Posted: 27 August 2025 at 1:33am | IP Logged | 10
|
post reply
|
|
And dumb kids at that. Painful as it is to remember, American comic books right from the start were seen as being entertainment for the not-very-bright. Even as the speculators turned them into cash cows, comics themselves lay under a pall. LAWNMOWER MAN and A FEW GOOD MEN used them to indicate character’s low intelligence. On FRIENDS even tho the smart boys, Ross and Chandler, were established as having read comics, it was the intellectually deficient Joey who was actually shown reading them.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7043
|
| Posted: 27 August 2025 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 11
|
post reply
|
|
Modern sensibilities have grown some weird sensitivities about all-ages
material. People seem to need the comfort of looking down on kids stuff.
Working at DreamWorks, I’ve seen how the animated movies are conceived
for a wide audience by writing for the adult viewers. Meanwhile, working at
PBS Kids I saw how writing for kids meant writing for the very youngest and
least sophisticated viewers. Any attempt to emulate the chaotic and
experimental Sesame Street that I grew up with is unthinkable today. Just
as impossible as getting to final animation with any movie as earnest as the
classic Disney - even if it’s a tone/style as recent as Beauty & the Beast.
These things change over time. I think that modern audiences are generally
in a less sophisticated phase, but they absolutely do not want to be labeled
as such. So kids fare has been dumbed down as comics and animated
movies have become “adult” through a self-conscious attitude, rather than
by actually becoming more mature.
Kranky old fart conclusion: It’s as though preserving the idea that kids fare
is for dummies guides everything and has meant dumbing everything down
for a dumber audience.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 27 August 2025 at 2:02pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13042
|
| Posted: 27 August 2025 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 12
|
post reply
|
|
The TV show M*A*S*H disappointingly presented comicbooks as something for adults who were childlike, uneducated, unsophisticated, and in one instance actually mentally impaired.
Meanwhile, my 4th grade teacher put out a challenge to us that she would know the meaning of any word we could find, but I was the one who stumped her because I learned "transmogrification" from the Abomination storyline in THE HULK. Actually, my teacher at first accused me of making up the word, until I brought in the comic!
Oh, and just to add -- when I brought in the comic, she refused to look at it. Didn't want to be proven wrong by that dumb trash.
Edited by Michael Penn on 27 August 2025 at 2:05pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
