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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 17 July 2024 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | 1  

Consider me a very strong long-term Biden supporter. I am now in favor of replacing him as a candidate.  Which sucks, because I do think he's been an excellent President with a lot of policy successes.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 17 July 2024 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 2  

How're you a "very strong long-term Biden supporter" and want to replace him??

Strangely, I've heard of NO Democrat that would successfully replace Biden at this stage of the election.

-C!
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 17 July 2024 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 3  

C: How're you a "very strong long-term Biden supporter" and want to
replace him?

**

That isn’t even apparently contradictory.

We all saw the debate. It changed a lot of minds by revealing what had been
hidden about his inability to prosecute the case against Trump.

Biden needs to clarify his message. Pronto.
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 17 July 2024 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | 4  

Getting contentious with me on the subject probably is misguided, Charles.  I'll vote for whoever is at the top of the ticket, including Biden. I'm a fan.  But his time looks to have passed, and that's the reality we have to face - and face quickly.

The reason I'm a Democrat is that I feel in general the party exists most closely to the reality we inhabit, while favoring policies that will make a more equitable and sustainable future for all.  The reason I favor mainstream Democratic candidates is because while I prefer the majority of progressive policies, I also think that evolutionary change is preferable and more lasting than revolutionary change (with the exception of climate policies, which are decades overdue and really do need to be the legislative equivalent of a Manhattan Project to tackle).

So this is the reality: Trump needs to be taken seriously as a literal extinction level event. All legal paths to blocking him from office have not only failed, but have only added to his terrible allure. These are literally desperate times.


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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 17 July 2024 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 5  

Annnnd Biden now has Covid. What a decade the past four days have been.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 17 July 2024 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | 6  

And just as Biden starts pulling ahead in the polls…

New Polls Show Biden Beating Trump
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 18 July 2024 at 5:32am | IP Logged | 7  

Mark, here's a good analysis of fivethirtyeight's prediction model.  It notes that fivethirtyeight's model appears to be placing too much weight on the "fundamentals" (a growing economy, incumbency, decreasing inflation, low unemployment) and not enough weight on the polls themselves.  For whatever reason, Biden's solid fundamentals have not translated into a higher approval rating for him or a rise in the polls, and therefore they are much less likely to have predictive value than they have in elections past. 

Fivethirtyeight is the best-known poll aggregator/prediction model, but at this point it appears to be an outlier in its bullishness for Biden.  It's notable that Nate Silver is no longer affiliated with the website, and his own prediction model is apparently substantially less optimistic about Biden's chances (it's paywalled, so I do not know exactly what he's predicting).  
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 18 July 2024 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 8  

But Jason, NO POLLS are “predictive”.

That’s why 538 has the model it does, which has been predictive in the
past. I doubt Nate Silver took their model away or substantially improved on
it.

Not that 538 is predicting a win for Biden, just that if they are wrong, then
it’s not because they aren’t trusting the “predictive” polls.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 18 July 2024 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 9  

Even then, the model is basically saying there's a 50/50 shot.  I wouldn't use that to say Biden's winning; but I do think it's fair to point that out to the "he's GUARANTEED to lose" crowd.

My feelings haven't changed much since a few pages ago (keeping Biden may not be a great option, but he's still the best option), but even if I'm willing to concede that I was wrong and it really would be better for Biden to withdraw, I think Biden's doing them a favor by refusing to drop out right now because the "droppers" still haven't settled on what happens next.  Ditching Plan A without having Plan B fully thought out and ready to go is a recipe for disaster.

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Brad Wilders
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Posted: 18 July 2024 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 10  

"That’s why 538 has the model it does, which has been predictive in the
past. I doubt Nate Silver took their model away or substantially improved on it.?

Actually, he did.  He owned the IP underlying the model and took it with him we he separated from 538.  The current model was built by someone else. As noted, Silver is running his model, which shows very different results in the matchup--more like 70/30 Trump.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 18 July 2024 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 11  

Nate Silver had Hillary Clinton at a 86% chance of winning the election in August of 2016. We all know how that went. 

Allan Lichtman seems more qualified in this discussion.

When these f'n Dems said they endorsed and fully supported Biden 100%...we didn't know they had an "unless...." attached to that "commitment."

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 18 July 2024 at 3:14pm
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 18 July 2024 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 12  

RNC is a good thing and bad thing for the GOP.  The good thing is that it shows they've got a killer energy and mindset that can motivate their supporters. The bad thing is that it does a good job of reminding everybody else how dystopian and repulsive their view of America is for those not within their demographic.
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