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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6426
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 2:32am | IP Logged | 1
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Dave: …So history would say that a) it's not a good idea to drop the
incumbent and b) there's plenty of time for things to change between July
and November.
***
Those are apples and oranges. LBJ was not publicly viewed as an aging
incompetent, Biden is. And the excitement around Trump was visible and
unprecedented. Using LBJ and Trump to describe what this campaign has
in store if Biden stays is to use fairy dust to explain how airplanes fly.
Biden’s success or failure will have nothing to do with those examples.
In the other hand, building excitement around a new candidate will be like
seeing how Trump beat the odds. The only thing missing is leadership. If
Biden is going to stay and win, he better discover a hidden cache of visible
leadership somewhere and take the lid off it. Right now, it’s obscured,
shaky, and ineffective.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6426
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 2:35am | IP Logged | 2
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Koroush, who cares who gets the “blame”?
If Trump wins, the least important thing in the world will be identifying who
to “blame”.
Either he loses and we have a Republic to rebuild, or he wins and twenty-
odd years of oligarchy begins.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1681
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 4:11am | IP Logged | 3
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Mark, correctly apportioning blame is part of what’s known as
accountability
If Trump and his cronies had been made fully accountable for his
unPresidented actions sooner, with greater vigour and clarity, then a
second term for Trump as Der Fooler would be moot.
Many have said this, but it bears repeating: don’t get caught up in this
prolonged, awkward - and highly public - soul-searching, genuflection and
denigration of Joe Biden. At this late stage you won’t find a better
candidate and you’re only giving Trump the distraction he sorely needs to
swoop back into office.
Biden’s health is an irrelevance in this election campaign. A sock puppet
would make a better President than Trump. In point of fact, the US
President could be dead, and his public appearances carefully stage-
managed by the Secret Service ala Weekend at Bernie’s and the US would
most likely be better off in terms of more consistent and more rational
policy formulation and execution!
The President as an all-powerful God-King is only
a relatively
recent development. And not a good one at that.
Meanwhile, Dems need to ignore the memes from far-right man-children
and simply hammer home three crucial facts regarding Donald the Clown
and his Party of Ill-Renown:
He/they are proven criminals traitors and self-confessed pals of global
despots.
If you can’t win an election based on those key points then it’s fair to say
that the electorate, and the political system as a whole, is beyond repair
and catastrophic change is inevitable.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6426
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 4:21am | IP Logged | 4
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Koroush, there will be no “accountability” if Trump wins.
The calculation that, “if Trump wins, then America deserved it” is so wrong
headed that it’s practically superstition.
Elections are politics. Politics can be done to win or done to “move the dial.”
Dems have traditionally settled for moving dials since LBJ.
But this time it should be “just win, baby!”
I am so damn sad to see this is not a typical attitude right now.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 10 July 2024 at 4:23am
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1681
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 5
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I confess my grasp of politics is tenuous at best, having been raised in a
Diplomatic household, studying Political Science & Economics at uni, and
ultimately giving regular briefings to a senior Minister in the Australian Govt.
So please excuse my naive observation that you and many other Americans
seem to think that politics is - and should be - all about the “optics” as it’s
now called, and how that can be finessed to cajole poor ol’ Mr and Mrs
Sixpack into voting for your team at any price. Once the good guys are in
power, everything will be fixed/improved.
Now Populism and bending to popular opinion have of course always been a
part of political systems based on democracy. But with Trump becoming
President, US politics jumped the shark. Populism is now apparently the
only game in town, and Democrats seem ready to engage at that level.
I think a lesson born of observing former President Obama’s behaviour is
needed. For example, Obama spoke to Trump, tolerated him, responding
with dignity using facts when pressed by him; but he never lowered himself
to Trump’s level… go ahead and find me just one ALL CAPS tweet full of
insults from Obama ;)
/EDIT: Tried to fix the formatting damage done to my post by the forum
gremlins but to no avail. Using standard Safari on iPhone 15 PM no other
mods. Called the JBF Tech Support line but was told my basic membership
didn’t entitle me to any tech help :(
Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 10 July 2024 at 6:11am
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7785
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 6:01am | IP Logged | 6
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Charles posted:
According to the polls in the UK and France, the right was supposed to win
big … until they didn’t. (Correct me if I’m wrong) Le Pen was supposed to be
the winner in France too.
—————-
The UK polls were showing an utter wipeout of the Tories 9right wing) for a
long time. Reform (right wing) were increasing but no where near enough.
Labour (left wing) were always more than 10 points ahead of the Tories.
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Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1515
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 6:09am | IP Logged | 7
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Saw a snippet from AOC today saying the only option now is to rally behind Biden. Found it surprising coming from her, but I think she has good instincts. If she is saying that, there really must not be a viable alternative.
With the benefit of hindsight, Biden should've resigned say two years into his presidency having fulfilled his duty of defeating Trump and having a moderately good presidency until then and give Kamala the chance to win Americans' good wills.
Now it's probably too late to change course. Outcome not looking good IMHO.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6426
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 8
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Koroush: …Populism is now apparently the
only game in town, and Democrats seem ready to engage at that level.
***
What in blue blazes are you talking about?
The entire left, center and middle right are unified like never before to try to
stop Trump. We have a current nominee who, despite his inability to win, is
a champion of ethical ruling. If he steps aside, it will be to make way for a
similar politician in a good faith effort to unify more disparate voters against
Trump’s populism.
Despite your impressive credentials, you seem to have no acquaintance
with current politics in America. Thanks for clarifying that.
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8947
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 9
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This article might be of interest to some: https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/we-now-know-what-really- happened
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Casey Sager
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 732
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 10
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Ahh more gaslighting.
So what I've seen with my own eyes that culminated at the debate didn't happen because his brain is mush.
To be clear, I will vote D down the ticket including if Biden is still the candidate. But if he IS the candidate I'll do it while choking down the bile.
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Casey Sager
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 732
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 11
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This bears repeating:
Check the polling numbers, they weren't good before the debate and they're terrible now.
For reference: At this point in the last election, Biden was up 9 points in the polls and barely won by 40 thousand votes in a few swing states.
Bidens approval rating is currently at 37.5%. Historically in the last 40+ years NO incumbant with an approval rating of under 40% has won reelection.
It appears some here believe a political miracle will happen and refuse to believe the evidence presented.
Edited by Casey Sager on 10 July 2024 at 2:37pm
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4830
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| Posted: 10 July 2024 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 12
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Same 'political miracle' that happened in 2020... when many people were convinced Biden couldn't win... for many of the SAME reasons. (Pollsters were wrong then, remember?)
This time the media is really on board with helping a convicted felon, deranged, unethical, vengeance-obsessed wannabe dictator ex-President instead of urging HIM too step aside. The media is embracing fascism.
We are truly in dangerous territory.
-C!
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