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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 1
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Jim Muir wrote:
| Having filler material on standby doesnt really work in this situation, does it? I certainly dont want to pick up an issue halfway thru a storyline that is clearly filler. In this instance I am (unbelievably) happier to get a late book than a fill-in. |
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Then don't pick up the filler. That's the same as having the book late anyway, isn't it? For the sake of decorum and professionalism, though, I think it behooves the company to publish monthly books on a monthly basis. Or else, officially change the format.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17700
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 2
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Then don't pick up the filler. That's the same as having the book late anyway, isn't it?
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Exactly! The Late-Books-are-Fine-by-Me crowd can gleefully skip over that installment and readers who expect professionalism will have the option of reading a monthly comic book series.
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 3
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<<Then don't pick up the filler. That's the same as having the book late anyway, isn't it?>>
Fair point. I'd happily skip the filler.
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:05am | IP Logged | 4
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My favorite stories are always self contained anyway, so give me ALL filler!
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 5
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If you accept the late books, if you are (unbelievably) happier
to get a late book than a fill-in, you are part of the problem. And if
there are enough of "you", you are a BIG part of the problem. In the
end, everything that is wrong with the comicbook industry today comes
back to the consumers. You buy crap, you get crap.
I have no objections to fill-ins done by creative teams that are up to the job. A fill-in that was planned ahead of time by a fun or interesting creative team can be a great thing. The specific thing that I never, ever liked were the hastily assembled inventory stories. It always felt like the equivalent of buying a Frank Sinatra album, taking it home, putting it on the turntable, and finding out that the record company has given you a Frank Sinatra Jr. album instead. It's almost what you wanted, but sorely lacking in execution.
If books were scheduled a bit farther ahead, and if freelancers were more honest with their editors about what they could actually deliver, then yeah, I'd love to see some advance planning and strategizing that allowed for planned fill-in issues from quality creative teams. Give Straczynski a three-month run on Thor, schedule someone else to write the next three months based on his outline, then bring back Straczynski for full scripts later on. Or take one of your A-list, big name guys off of his regular books and have him be a full-time pinch-hitter on the late books. There are probably a dozen ways to make the system more satisfying for everyone.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36087
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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ASM. Published three times a month. Rotating creative teams. Not late once in a year. That's something that should be applied to people like JMS. If he wants total control, not wanting anyone else to touch his run, then he should be off writing creator-owned material. The character of Thor isn't his, as Spider-Man wasn't either, but he sure as hell writes them as if they are. That's the most egregious thing to me.
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Donald Pfeffer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009
Posts: 194
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 7
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Today I went to my local comic shop for the first time in a few months. Well, not my local comic shop, since the one that's literally right down the street from my apartment kind of sucks, but the one about fifteen minutes away. Hot Comics in Golden Valley, MN. If you're ever in the Twin Cities, it's a good shop.
Anyway... the latest issue of Old Man Wolverine (or whatever it's called) still wasn't out, and it had already been late back when I last went to a comic shop all those months ago. So, yeah, late comics suck and it's hard to buy into the delusion that they aren't hurting sales. I mean, a comic that isn't on the stands can't make money, right? And the more comics you can put on the stands, the more that will sell, right? It's just simple logic.
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 8
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Matt, I'm starting to think that the current way ASM is handled is the way all superhero books should be done. There's just so many checks and balances that keep Spider-Man at least 90% correct, and it's gotten me to the point like in the old days where I look forward to reading it each month and not even care or notice who's writing.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36087
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 9
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Me too. Good stuff.
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Bruce Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 10
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The specific thing that I never, ever liked were the hastily assembled inventory stories.
***********
But how many of these did we really see back in the "good ol' days?"
I can remember a couple of issues filled with retrospective/reprint stuff that seemed to be obvious deadline filler. But most fill-in issues were fine - they were just self-contained stories that could be plugged in anywhere and work. It's not like there was a glut of sub-standard, rush-to-meet-a-deadline comics back when monthly deadlines were sacred.
And Amazing Spider-Man is awesome these days. If you don't like this book, then you must not be a Spider-Man fan. It's just great fun.
Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 05 June 2009 at 12:39pm
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Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 11
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I don't agree that offering a piece of crap because the real product isn't available is "professionalism". Not all fill-in's are crap but enough of them were that it's a common opinion that the fill-in is felt to be a rip-off.
A scheduled fill-in would be one thing. A break for the creative teams or whatever that was scheduled in advance that the reader could have a choice in the matter.
But too often the fill-in came across as a poor imitation at best and a poorly done, nothing to do with the previous issue, piece of crap in many cases that is packaged in such a way to make one feel like they were cheated out of their money.
Actually, this sort of practice may have been the very catalyst that forced me to have to start checking i.d.'s on comic books. I wouldn't buy the book until the artist I didn't like was gone or the one I did like was back(or a new one altogether was assigned).
When I think of what JB is talking about I think of old DC stuff. It seems like a lot of their stuff was on model even if a fill-in art team was working. When I think of my actual experience with fill-in's I think of '80's-'90's era Marvel. Which basically made "fill-in" a bad term.
I know that I was generally not appreciative of the fill-in and if I caught it at the register the book would not be purchased. The Punisher mini-series springs to mind. Beautiful Mike Zeck artwork the first 3 issues and the last two issues with me wondering what the hell happened and then feeling cheated to figure out that there was an entirely new artist finishing the project for whatever reason.
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 05 June 2009 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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I wonder if these out-of-industry writers/artists operate
from a perspective that they are doing the comic book
industry a favor simply by working in it ... as though
lending their names to a book is an act aimed at validating
the comic book industry to "civilians".
Can the basic rules of professionalism be applied to people
who do the work not as a tradesman but as a dilitetante or
benefactor?
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