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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16506
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 1
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John Byrne wrote:
...In fact, a return to Marvel, leaving DC behind, was considered by most of my fans to be intrinsically a step up. It was a "return to glory", not a slide further down... |
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I can vouch for that! I love a lot about DC, but I started out a Marvel fan, and at that time I definitely was more about Marvel Comics than DC Comics. I collected "New Teeb Titans" and "Legion of Super-Heroes" at DC before "Crisis On Infinite Earths" because those titles were the closest to Marvel at that time in my view. After "Crisis," and especially because of JB taking on the title, I started to buy the "Superman" titles, but I was always hoping he'd return to Marvel. And I loved it that he came to work on "West Coast Avengers," a comic I was all ready collecting.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 2
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..But the fact of the matter is that Image did not fail--so nobody was
crawling back and we never got to see if that was or was not the case.
••
No -- all we have is history and common sense to tell us what would have
happened.
"Just because I let go of this hammer and it fell to the ground three hundred
times before, doesn't mean it will do it the 301st time!"
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Donald Pfeffer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009 Posts: 194
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 3
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"With a warchest in the millions and another company footing the bills and
taking all the real risks?
Man, I'll bet EVERY startup company wished it was "not easy" for them like
that!"
How's Penthouse Comics doing these days? Or Bravura? Topps? Malibu's Ultraverse? So, no, maybe it wasn't easy to raise the money to start a comic book company in the 90s, but making it for the long haul sure proved hard, as the demise of all those other companies proved. And, frankly, no matter how much money you raise or how successful you are at your current position, quitting in order to start up a new company takes balls and entails a certain amount of risk.
I'll admit that it wasn't the most risky business venture in the world so long as you'll admit that also wasn't as completely risk free or easy as you are making it out to be.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 4
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How's Penthouse Comics doing these days? Or Bravura? Topps? Malibu's Ultraverse? So, no, maybe it wasn't easy to raise the money to start a comic book company in the 90s, but making it for the long haul sure proved hard, as the demise of all those other companies proved. And, frankly, no matter how much money you raise or how successful you are at your current position, quitting in order to start up a new company takes balls and entails a certain amount of risk.•• Yes it does. But that's not what the Image boys did.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36094
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 5
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Andrew W. Farago wrote:
The number of people reading comics, period, is picking up when you factor in things like webcomics, manga, comics circulated through libraries, trades sold in chain bookstores, and other methods of distribution that were non-existent or underutilized until recently. |
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I'd like some numbers on this kind of thing. Not that I don't believe you, but I have a hard time believing that comic book readership is up simply because there are more ways to read them. Half of the distribution methods you cite hardly take the place of the newsstand distribution that was in place in nearly every grocery store, gas station, and convenience store for decades until it was all but pushed out. Comic books have been circulated in libraries for decades. I read them in the 70s at my local library. Nothing new. Trades in book stores have been selling there for at least 20 years. Again, not a new method of distribution nor one that was underutilized.
I dunno. I can't help but think that the same people buying comics at their local LCS are also the ones reading web comics, buying trades and collections of comic strips...like me. In other words, I see more avenues of distribution, none as successful as the newsstand, being used by the same 40 year old comic book fan with barely a trickle of new readership being introduced to the medium. Just saying a superhero movie drives fans to the comics is a bad assumption that only really came to fruition with Burton's BATMAN but which no company, Marvel or DC, has capitalized on with their myriad of hits over the last decade. In the end, I guess I'd just like proof that there are new readers coming out in droves or that readership is up. I can't believe it when I see recent sales figures, more than those posted in this thread, and compare them to even five years ago let alone ten, twenty, or thirty years ago.
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Eric Lund Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2074
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 6
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Comic readership is like the snake eating its tail. The same people who buy the books at the LCS ARE the same ones who buy the trade so they have "A reading copy" or "something that looks good on the shelf" as well as webcomics etc... There may be more ways for people to get the same thing but the same group of dwinding "fans" are the ones accessing it.
The numbers don't lie and they are getting smaller. JB's ist issue of the Justice League when he introduced the Doom Patrol sold 96,000 and that was not the top selling book. It was really good sales but the number one spot was doing over 200,000. For the top book now to not even break 80,000 then you know things are not getting better.
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Brad Danson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 1440
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 7
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Well, we ARE in a bad economy right now so things could get easily get better. I'm not arguing any of your points though. I'm Just saying that a slight uptick in the next few years really doesn't mean anything. I think it would be the financial equivalent of a "dead cat bounce".
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Keith Thomas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3082
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 8
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With all the competition now compared to the 80s there is
no way comics are going to have anywhere near the same
numbers, even if they were good.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 9
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With all the competition now compared to the 80s there is
no way comics are going to have anywhere near the same
numbers, even if they were good.
••
The Golden Age disputes that notion…
And before anybody inovkes "comics were only a dime, then", consider…
A comicbook cost as much as dinner!
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Ed Bracken Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2009 Posts: 2
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 10
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"As I noted upthread, McFarlane is the master of the
Big Lie. He spouts utter bullshit and then scampers off. Larsen tries
to do the same thing -- but foolishly sticks around to be called on it.
Lucky for him he has his defenders ready to cry foul when he's called
on it. God forbid he should have to justify what he says."
*****
Heh. Irony, thy name is Byrne.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 11
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Irony, thy name is Byrne.
••
Perhaps you care to show us some instances of me deliberately
misrepresenting a situation, or running off rather than standing behind my
words?
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 17 June 2009 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 12
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Oh, goody. I always like these ones.
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