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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133580
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 1
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As for this whole "step down" matter - perhaps one could argue there's less overall prestige working on AWC than, say, Fantastic Four. But surely it's more difficult to make unpopular books (such as WCA) popular, than it is to make already-popular books slightly more popular? And I've got no sales figures to back up what I'm about to say (I'm sure Howard M could confirm this, however) but didn't the sales on AWC jump quite significantly with JB's debut issue?•• Strictly eye of the beholder, really. As a couple of people noted upthread, they thought my originally taking on FANTASTIC FOUR was a "step down" from X-MEN, even tho it already sold almost twice as well! SUPERMAN was considered a "step down" by some of the more snobbish fans. And, it should be noted, WCA was by no means "unpopular". It was doing quite well enough (and spectacularly well by current standards!), and, indeed, if I had thought it was "unpopular" I would not have accepted the job. The one thing I was not looking for upon my return to Marvel was a renovation project!
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Darren Taylor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6025
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 2
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[Edited to add Thanos' name]
Thanos, I'm not disputing that in the superhero comic tiertery system that everything is south of Superman. That's pretty indisputable.
There -were- other major titles around that JB had not yet done and Batman spring to mind. (As a side thought if JB's WW run had happen directly after his Superman one, that would have seemed like a pretty natural move).
I remember being at a Con here in the U.K at the time and seeing some of JB's pencil stats of Hawkeye on the Whirlygig, these blew me away. Seeing JB at the time at the Con I have -NO- doubt that 'fun' was the overiding factor in JB's decision making as when talking about the new work he was happy, smiling, having a laugh...ahh, now I'm all nostalgic*.
As time moved on, I began to hear this niggle in Comic Shops here and there echoeing this 'perception' and the arguement here is; Can it be perceived as a step down to do a second tier comic after having done a succession of top tier ones? I have to say, "Yes" it can be perceived that way, which doesn't in any way make it a fact.
Did Eric Larsen start this perception? "No". Should Professionals, act professionaly? "Yes".
* At the time this was all happening I'd count myself as your typical Byrne fan and the -only- thought in my head was "Where's my next JB fix coming from?", I had no worries at all about the implications or perceptions of what title he was working on might have.
Edited by Darren Taylor on 17 June 2009 at 7:55am
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 3
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Man, JB on Dr Strange would've been cool.... <g>
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Jason Bitael
Byrne Robotics Member
AKA Mike Keane
Joined: 20 March 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 4
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Mr.Byrne working on ANY title is cool to me. I haven't been reading comics as long as most of you. But since I started , The one thing I notice most about Mr.Byrne's work is how much of a higher quality of art and writing it is compared to everything else that I've read. You can tell how much care and love he has for the books he works on just by looking at a single panel. I can stare at pages for hours on end and just be mesmerized by his talent. I don't consider anything he works on to be anything but "A-List". I would buy any comic book with the name John Byrne on it and know that I will be getting more than my moneys worth.
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Donald Pfeffer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009
Posts: 194
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 5
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"Unless you were actually working at Marvel at the time (and at other times) you have no frame of reference."
I may not have a frame of reference from working at Marvel at the time, but I certainly have a frame of reference from having worked in the business world. And, frankly, no matter the frame of reference, starting up a business is not easy and requires a lot of risk. I'm not saying he didn't have a safety net in place, but you also have a safety net when you walk a tightrope at the circus and it would be just as wacky to say that requires no risk too.
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Mark McKay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2264
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 6
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I was far more disappointed when JB left AWC then when he left Superman!
Man, those were some great stories...
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Michael Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 April 2004
Posts: 8566
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 7
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Mark, I agree.
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Donald Pfeffer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009
Posts: 194
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 8
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I'd put John's run on WCA on my top ten favorite comic book runs of all time. It's just ridiculously clever and inventive.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133580
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 9
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…starting up a business is not easy and requires a lot of risk…
••
With a warchest in the millions and another company footing the bills and
taking all the real risks?
Man, I'll bet EVERY startup company wished it was "not easy" for them like
that!
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16506
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 10
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Erik Larsen wrote:
...Savage Dragon started off as a top ten book but is very much a B-List book at this point. Even though it's never been cancelled and is the second-longest running title at Image, its sales level makes it very much
a B-list title.... |
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Erik, sincere question: If you weren't a founder of Image Comics, would "Savage Dragon" have been cancelled at this point?
And for a third time, if Image was all about creator's rights, why did the second wave of creator-owned titles from Image ("Tribe," "Splitting Image," "Shaman's Tears") get the axe?
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16506
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 11
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Erik wrote:
...But the fact of the matter is that Image did not fail--so nobody was
crawling back and we never got to see if that was or was not the case.
What happened instead was that I was getting the itch to do something
with DC and Marvel characters. Aquaman became open--the editor was
looking for a new writer--I'd talked about it with a friend, Chris
Eliopoulos, and came up with enough ideas on the spot that I figured it
would be fun to do. I didn't ask about Superman or Batman or anything
else. I wasn't being punished--I was being given the book that I asked
about doing... |
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Fair enough. But isn't that what JB said he did, too, yet you talked as if he had to take "b-list" titles at Marvel when he returned because he left Marvel to do "Superman."
Where do you see the difference between what happened with you and what happened with JB?
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16506
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| Posted: 17 June 2009 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 12
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Erik wrote:
...My
point was NOT that they were lousy--my point was that the common
perception was that going from Superman to She-Hulk as a career move was
a step down. I preferred them to much of his Superman run... |
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Again, how does this differ from you going back to Marvel and working on "Nova," or going to DC and working on "Aquaman"?
And you seem to look over the fact that while JB was on "Namor" and "She-Hulk," he was also writing "Avengers" and "Iron Man," and later Marvel put him on "Amazing Spider-Man."
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Topic Closed)
