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Chris Geary Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 January 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1158
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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I am frequently stunned by the number of writers who do not seem to comprehend the simple, basic, unchangeable fact that this is a printed page, not some elastic medium that will expand and contract to fit their needs.
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Last year I recieved a script that had 'Panel 3 - Large frame at the bottom ...' and after that, had the descriptions for the rest of the panels on that page. There were 7 panels in total. This also doesn't count for the fact that the first panel was asking for two opposite directions to be featured and would therefore have to be spilt into two seperate pictures.
And there's quite a few writers that are not too aware of how much text to fit on a page.
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4079
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 2
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I guess I came across pretty blunt there, but it's one of my Internet pet peeves.
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Arc Carlton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009 Location: Peru Posts: 3493
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 3
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I wrote it plot style and Jim Aparo drew a few pages at one point and he was completely baffled when he was sent the plot.
________________
That is a quite a surprise. I was sure that after all those years drawing Batman, Aparo wouldn't need any directions at all.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5094
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 4
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That Jim Aparo story is quite a surprise to me as well.
I would have thought having worked with Marvel guys such as Starlin and Wolfman they would have used the Marvel Method on their Batman work.
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Rick Whiting Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Posts: 2218
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 5
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Can someone post either an example or an actual link that shows the difference between a full script and a Marvel style plot?
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Arc Carlton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009 Location: Peru Posts: 3493
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 6
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I would say the main difference is the amount of creative freedom the penciller has...
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5094
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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Rick,
As I understand it a Marvel style approach is basically the writer coming up with the issues plot from beginning to end and then verbally telling the artist what they want or providing a paragraph or a few written pages that go in to more detail of what should happen in the issue.
The issue is then pencilled, and the penciller is the one who creates the plot page by page on their own.
Full script is the writer breaking down the story in sequence page-by-page, and describing the panel layout, action, characters and even panel angles. The pages also contain all dialogue and captions.
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Jim Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2006 Posts: 380
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
Full script is the writer breaking down the story in sequence page-
by-page, and describing the panel layout, action, characters and even
panel angles. The pages also contain all dialogue and captions. |
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What I don't understand is this seeming belief that a full script is
somehow inviolate over a Marvel-style plot.
I've never yet had a full script illustrated where the artist hasn't exercised
their best judgement over which bits of my script will work when
illustrated, and which bits they're just going to ignore.
Now, I will admit that I do at least approach full script like a comic (none
of this "panning" nonsense) because what I'm trying to do is describe the
comic that's in my head. The hope is that, if I'm good enough with
words, something of what I'm describing will connect with something in
the artist's head and I can use his hands to draw the pictures that
mine refuse to produce.
Nonetheless, my big panels have become small panels. My splash pages
have become multi-panel pages, my scene and character descriptions
have been wilfully ignored.
So ... unless there are writers or editors who are sending full scripts to
artists with instructions that the script is not to be deviated from under
any circumstances, then it's not strictly accurate to claim that full script
stifles the artist's freedom. More than the Marvel method, but by no
stretch of the imagination entirely.
Cheers!
Jim
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 9
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"I found it mind-boggling that a guy who had been in the business as long as he had would have such a tough time drawing from a plot. "
Well, I suppose it takes some getting used to after working full script for so long. But it's very much about what one is comfortable with.
If I may offer a personal observation, I think the fact that Aparo often did everything else after the script was done might be what made it difficult. He was a penciler, a letterer and and inker, so naturally he designed his pages around the text. His pages were always wonderfully designed, especially in the way he integrated the lettering and captions into the artwork.
Asking Aparo to work Marvel Method where the lettering and sound effects are added later seems like asking him to give up one of the strongest aspects of his work. The amount of text he could fit on a page while keeping it dynamic and exciting is astounding. As long as he had the text before he started designing the page.
I honestly think that if one hired a man like Aparo and didn't give him a full script one would lose out on some of the unique qualities he brought to the table. Just like one should always have worked with John Buscema Marvel style.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5094
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 10
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John Ostrander commented in one of his Firestorm LOC, that he used full script but knew when to play to an artist's strengths and give them freedom, mainly in a lot of action sequences where he felt their storytelling ability would be better utilised with artisitc freedom rather than confining them to his strict plot.
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Arc Carlton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009 Location: Peru Posts: 3493
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 11
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Depending on the artist, sometimes the Marvel method or the full script could be more useful...
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 15 June 2009 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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What I think would make the industry better would be more done in one stories with some underlying plot that might carry over a few issues. That way, a 2 month gap between stories wouldn't be so bad. Though that would be 6 times the work for writers at 1/6th the pay per hour spent writing.
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