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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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That's cool! See, basically my point was, that the artist should be in control
of exactly how he wants something composed. When photo reference (more
importantly photo tracing) is overused, it can almost seem like the photo is
dictating the shot. Sometimes I'll pick up a comic from nowadays and see a
party scene for instance, and it'll be hundreds of photo-people all talking
to... god knows who with a scarce background handled by sly photoshop
coloring. I sit there and wonder "ya know, if this was drawn by someone like
JB, we'd get a fully realized space with characters actually interacting with
each other and not just pasted in.
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Chris Abel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 603
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
JT, Liefeld made a freakin' pin up /cover / whatever using the Leticia
Casta photo reference! Greg Horn has done it many times over, so has
Land and I don't know how many others.
As for the artists taking
photos and using them, I don't have very much respect for those.
Especially not when all they do is this (Maleev is the prime example).
Epting may be using photos the past few years, but he sure as heck
knows how to draw comics without them!!! |
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I'm not familiar with Greg Horn's photo tracing, but I do know Greg Land has gotten some criticism for it since he "drawing" that way. Google search "Greg Land swipes" and you will find many links that show how much he's been tracing. Maleev got some flack for that Magneto cover that was just a photoshop job of a member of the Spanish royalty.
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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Okay, I'm ranting now, but I'm an artist and this is something that gets my
goat about a lot of fandom.
JB, you often mention that it's a myth that artists don't have to "face the
blank page", and it can be really annoying. Using my other example it's
like sure, the script could say *splash page, party scene* and it could be 5
badly rendered people scarcely emoting in a really uninteresting living
room, or it could be one of those quasi-futuristic James Bond type parties
with glass walls and 50 people standing on many levels conversing
organically, and just kinda hit you right in the face ya know?
I don't get sometimes why this has become a writer centric medium as of
late, when the artists are on some level, all the "director" the "actors" the
"cinematogapher", "stuntman", and "FX guy".
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17701
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 4
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I saw some recent Land artwork during my last trip to the comic book store.
I didn't know he was still getting work...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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I don't get sometimes why this has become a writer centric medium as of
late, when the artists are on some level, all the "director" the "actors" the
"cinematogapher", "stuntman", and "FX guy".
••
Simple! Writers write the credits.
It may sound like oversimplification, but there is an awful lot of power and
weight behind
Written by HORACE T. STAFFHACK
Drawn by HOMER J. PENCILPUSHER
Especially when there are so many fans who do not understand the
process, and simply assume that everything is written full script, and the
artist is merely drawing what the writer has told him to draw.
(This is increasingly true, as more and more turn back to full scripts as the
chosen method -- but this is also one of the reasons so many comics these
days are so friggin' DULL. Too many writers who cannot think in pictures.
At least, not STILL pictures.)
And, let's face it, there have been many writers down thru the years who
have encouraged this. Insisted that they, and they alone must "face the
blank page".
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | 6
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That is very true.
Currently, with the little book I'm trying to get off the ground some day, I
actually got curious and tried out the "Marvel method".
I started to notice that when you're working around a basic outline, you're
forced to constantly draw with IMPACT, and then later when I was adding
words to it by myself and with my cousin/co-writer, I noticed that the
writing is actually better off impacting that impact. It's like a
double whammy! I wonder if that's why early Marvel comics were so much
more exciting than stuff that'd come before it. (That and Stan Lee's notorious
exclamation points everywhere(!))
Edited by JT Molloy on 14 June 2009 at 2:31pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 7
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Agreed. I have gone back and forth working full script and Marvel style for myself to draw. The FF was done almost entirely Marvel style, NEXT MEN was done full script. WONDER WOMAN was also full script. On the STAR TREK stuff I have gone back to Marvel style, scripting the pages at the end of each day, after I have drawn them.
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David Ferguson
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Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 8
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I get the impression that very few people use the Marvel method nowadays. I know Dan Slott is one person that does.
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Lee Painter
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Joined: 01 January 2009
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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Interesting insight. You learn something new everyday on here and here I am paying tuition like a sucker.
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Greg McPhee
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Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5094
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | 10
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So...The Marvel Method is dead???
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 11
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Not dead, but certainly coughing blood.We've seen in the last fifteen to twenty years a distinct swing back to the full script method, spurred on mostly by the influx of movie and television writers who have decided to write comics, without actually, you know, writing comics. Rather like a Grand National jockey entering a rodeo and expecting the horses to behave like a thoroughbred. Imagine a comicbook writer walking onto a soundstage in Hollywood and expecting to be able to do exactly the same job he'd been doing for the printed page. "Now, I want this to be a double- page spread. . . " Wouldn't ever happen, of course. Hollywood expects any who wish to work there to learn how to work their. Comics, alas, have always been a bit too eager to bend over and say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"
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Bryan White
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| Posted: 14 June 2009 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 12
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JB, I always assumed you to be too cultured to see "Animal House" or its ilk.
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