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Shaun Crowell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 874
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 1
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I didn't mind Image, for the most part I just wasn't interested in the
characters which were mostly copies of marvel and DC characters.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36087
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 2
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I'm not shamed to admit that I tried them all. Stuck with SPAWN longer than I should have and liked SHADOWHAWK more than anything they produced at the time. Other than those two titles, I didn't stick with anything longer than a couple of issues. Stayed away from Image for a long time because of that perception and only came back via the trades for THE WALKING DEAD, which I think is a brilliant comic, and that in turn led me to seek out Kirkman's other title at the time, INVINCIBLE, which I think is a blast as well. Now I'll check them out, as I do all comic book companies, on a case by case basis.
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Anthony Frail
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 October 2007
Posts: 960
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 3
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From what I understand, Robert Kirkman cites Savage Dragon as a massive influence on the way he does Invincible.
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
Posts: 3882
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 4
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didn't mind Image, for the most part I just wasn't interested in the
characters which were mostly copies of marvel and DC characters.
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That's hogwash! There's still nothing like Spawn or Savage Dragon. I'm definitely NOT a Spawn fan, but Todd couldn't have done that at Marvel. It's definitely it's own book. The Image guys went and did their own thing instead of twisting established properties to their liking, with lots of sarcasm and mocking of the original material, like Neil Gaiman does.
Maybe some of their books were crappy but there was no hidden disdain behind it. I'd much rather many creators today went and create their own books instead of leeching Marvel characters popularity.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 11 June 2009 at 11:34am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133577
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 5
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What can Mr. Fantastic do that Plastic Man can't? They seem to be the same basic power, only Mr. Fantastic does much less with it, even though, as Mr. Byrne points out, he did do similar things at first. •• "Similar" is not "the same". And don't change your point by flipping it. Of course Plastic Man can do what Reed can do, but that was not the direction in which you stated the imitation ran. When the character of Plastic Man was created, plastics as we know them today were virtually nonexistent. The word as used in his name mean "able to change shape". And that was his distinguishing gig. Once more: he turned into things. Reed might have shaped his fist into a mallet on occasion, but his fist did not become a mallet. In fact, I have often thought getting hit by one of Reed's mallet-hands, or even one of his fist when he's stretching, would be a lot like getting hit with a NERF mallet. Kirby very early on realized that Reed was not Plastic Man, and the Plastic Man-like stunts faded away.
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Brad Danson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1440
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
YMMV, but I never thought for a minute that Bagley
looked like Larsen.
Curious, and just asking a question here, but when you say "a lot of
us" do you really mean just you or did you hear a lot of people saying
Bagley looked like Larsen? |
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Yes, I meant that a lot of people that I talked to thought it. Even quite a few people at the Kubert school thought it. After posting that, I questioned my knowledge at the time, so I looked up some covers. I'm surprised to find that it was more obvious than I remembered. I can't argue a point better than these pictures could make so I'm not going to try. But if you can honestly say that you don't see a similarity then we should just agree to disagree. I would find it hard to understand anyone not seeing a similarity between Bagley and Larsen in the picture below.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36087
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Brad Danson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1440
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
| Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree. |
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I just can't help but think you're refusing to see it. Tell you what, take the picture above to ten teenagers with limited comic book knowledge and ask them to tell you which artist drew FOUR of those covers and I'll bet good money that they'll tell you the last four were drawn by the same person.
The elbows, the flip of the corner of his eyes, the width of the webbing, the shoulders, the biceps, the triceps...how are you not seeing the similarities compared to all of the other artists before them?
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Robert Walsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 July 2008
Posts: 456
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 9
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Mr. Byrne, I stand in awe of your ability to cite examples of Reed
Richards using Plastic Man style abilities while denying his ability to do
them.
It sounds as if he was originally created to be a Plastc Man clone (power
wise) before they decided to reduce the obvious simularities.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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So...which one's which? ;) Seriously, there's perhaps a bit of superficial similarity there; it's also worth noting that Randy Emberlin inked both images. However, if you juxtapose larger images, the similarity fades.
Interestingly, here's one of Bagley inked by Erik--
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 11 June 2009 at 1:20pm
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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Brad wrote:
| Tell you what, take the picture above to ten teenagers with limited comic book knowledge... |
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Well, there you have it: limited CB knowledge.
QUOTE:
| The elbows, the flip of the corner of his eyes, the width of the
webbing, the shoulders, the biceps, the triceps...how are you not
seeing the similarities compared to all of the other artists before
them? |
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For my part, perhaps it's familiarity with both artists' styles before either did ASM. Other than that, Erik's Spider-Man is noticeably more angular than Bagley's and has a longer head. Also, more blacks are used on Erik's Spidey. It's a bit odd that you'd circle the elbows – many artists tend to draw elbows as trianglur; and the respective feet are clearly of different shapes.
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Donald Pfeffer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009
Posts: 194
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| Posted: 11 June 2009 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 12
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I hope this debate continues if only so we can see more awesome artwork from Erik Larsen and Mark Bagley.
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Topic Closed)
