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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 1
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I remember reading an interview with McFarlane where he stated part of the reason he wanted out of Marvel was because he was tired of creating things he didn't own. Now the only thing I can think of he "created" was Venom. Being as it was based on the black costume, which I'm sure he didn't "create", how was his "creation" of Venom any different than Gaiman's "creation" of Angela? It seems basing an idea on someone else's past idea is only an act of creation when it applies to McFarlane.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 2
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The Image boys very early on -- before Image even -- stumbled upon the clever ruse of using "create" as if it is an active verb. As if everything we do, working for Marvel or DC or anyone else, is an act of "creation". Whereas truth to tell, all we really do is extrapolate. True acts of creation are very, very rare indeed.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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Do artists* get paid when they turn in their work or do they get paid
in advance? How do some guys earn a living with the delays between
projects?
You'll probably notice that it's the most popular creators who have major deadline problems. If you're in the "regular guy" end of things, like most comic creators, you're putting in enough time at the drawing board every day to pay the bills, and you probably aren't getting an advance on your work.
If your name alone is enough to sell a book, then you'll get a reasonable advance when you sign on for a project, you'll get a bigger check when you deliver your work, and if the project sells well enough, you'll get royalties from the individual issue sales and additional royalties from sales of the collected editions. Popular artists can also pay the bills by knocking out covers and illustrations between issues. A big enough royalty check for an artist who has minimal expenses can tide you over between issues, too.
I think modern artists are looking at trade sales and realizing that they don't want to split payments with additional artists, and that they want to have entire books of their own work on the shelves, and that some books, like Watchmen, are going to stay in print forever. I'm sure that more than one artist has changed his approach to comics since the trade paperback market exploded. Artists are approaching single issues as installments of a graphic novel instead of something that kids are only going to read for a month until the next issue comes along.
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Jim Campbell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2006
Posts: 380
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
I suppose that elaborately written contracts were anathema to
Image back in the early days, but once you start bringing people in on a
work-for-hire basis, you need to spell everything out. That's one of
those lessons that people tend to learn the hard way. |
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Yeah ... this is kind of what I was groping towards with my previous
posts. I will always believe in stupidity and/or incompetence over active
malice in most occasions.
When you start talking about creative types going into business, you can
add naivete into the mix quite readily.
I've been unable to successfully Google it up, but there's an interview
with Paul Johnson about his time trying to regain some kind of direction
to the careering juggernaut that was Tundra at the time, that illustrates
this perfectly.
In all honesty, it's a thoroughly depressing read, detailing as it does, the
procession of people who lined up to buttfuck Kevin Eastman when all
he genuinely wanted to do was funnel some of the stupid amount of
Turtle money he'd made back into the industry, but it's kind of a
good argument as to why business people should do the business, and
creative people should do the creating.
I suspect Mr Larsen might have a few stories of this kind himself, but
this isn't really the place for it.
Cheers!
Jim
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David Chase
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 50
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 5
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I would like to point out that Image did in fact have deal with Mark Millar, Jim Lee, Joe Madureira, Brian Hitch, Jeff Smith and a dozen other of the top names in the field?
And what did that get Image the brand?
Mark Millar - the Authority which was great but late
Jim Lee, founder - Um to I have to say it.... and he left out of fustration on the business end.
Joe Mad - Battlechasers, who's still waiting?
Brian Hitch - the Authority again
Jeff Smith - Bone cronically late
And the dozen other who were part of the purge of the wave two of creators who flooded to image to give it a whirl in the mid 90's. A few that come to mind; Art Thibert, Mike Grell, Larry Stroman, Keith Giffen.
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Jim Campbell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2006
Posts: 380
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
some books, like Watchmen, are going to stay in print
forever. |
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This is kind of an odd case, though. Moore & Gibbons thought they'd
done really well when they negotiated a deal with DC that gave them the
same deal that actual, proper novel writers get: if a work goes out of
print for X (usually five, I think) years, then the rights revert to the
authors.
Now, I have no idea whether the sales justified the continual printing of
Watchmen, or whether DC continually printed the book to hold onto the
Watchmen rights.
Now that the Watchmen movie has tanked, we can always wait and see if
the book now goes out of print and we might get an answer to that
...
Cheers
Jim
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David Chase
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 50
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 7
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Crap... I think I am wrong about the Authority in my above post
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | 8
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Now that the Watchmen movie has tanked, we can always wait and see if
the book now goes out of print and we might get an answer to that
The movie underperformed in the box office, but I think it's going to do pretty well in DVD sales.
Regardless, the collected edition is still selling really well. I'm sure that DC's not going to let it fall out of print anytime soon. I'd bet the movie guarantees at least another decade of automatic reprints on DC's part.
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Keith Thomas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3082
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 9
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Anyone remember when Art Adams came on the scene and he
never did a monthly book because they knew he couldn't get
it out on time so after his Longshot mini-series (in which
him and Ann did create some really cool, unique
characters) he was relegated to covers, annuals, one shots,
or a fill in issue or two here and there. Why could editors
see he couldn't be on a monthly book then, and so used his
talents appropriately, but now can't do the same?
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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I think Art Adams maintained an even higher profile by not working on a single monthly book, when you put it that way. He seemed to keep a hand in every X-book in some capacity, knocked out some highly regarded annuals and one-shots, and did some occasional two- or three-issue story arcs, too. That's a lot more visibility than he'd have had as the artist on an ongoing Longshot series that shipped two to five times a year.
Edited by Andrew W. Farago on 09 June 2009 at 5:46pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 11
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You'll probably notice that it's the most popular creators who have major deadline problems.•• Fortunately you used present tense.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 09 June 2009 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 12
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I think Art Adams maintained an even higher profile by not working on a single monthly book, when you put it that way. He seemed to keep a hand in every X-book in some capacity, knocked out some highly regarded annuals and one-shots, and did some occasional two- or three-issue story arcs, too. That's a lot more visibility than he'd have had as the artist on an ongoing Longshot series that shipped two to five times a year. •• Gosh, d'you think maybe comics are in the crapper in no small part because too many of the "talent" are way too concerned with their "high profile" -- selling themselves -- than with selling the comics?
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