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Jim Yingst
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 866
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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I'm happy to try to address people the way they prefer to be addressed. If
there's one clear preference, and if it's possible to determine that. But
using "black" as an example, I've know some people who preferred to be
identified as "black" and others who prefer "African-American". And
many who just don't care. Talking with one person I can try to follow
their preference - with a group though, that's a bit more difficult. And
posting on the internet, one can't exactly take a survey of what people
prefer before you post. In such cases I generally would say "black" if, say,
giving a physical description, or if "American" doesnt apply, and "African
American" otherwise since that seems be be generally more popular these
days. A couple decades from now some new term will be popular, and
sure I'll try to remember to use that trendy new word when I can. But I
may occasionally forget and use an older term instead. I can only hope
the people around me won't be too scandalized when that happens.
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Frank Lauro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 February 2006
Posts: 1461
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | 2
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Avery Brooks (see avatar, to left) has repeatedly asked people in interviews and appearances to refer to him as brown, not black. Makes sense to me.
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 3
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Jim, if you were ever dressed down for using the "wrong" term that's very unfortunate and was unfair to you. No one should be so caught up in terms that they should become upset without gently offering a correction.
Again, short of using obvious epithets or outdated offensive terms (I think we all know what they are if we have a modicum of common sense and intelligence; no reason for a list), saying "black" or "AA" shouldn't elicit any negative responses. And for the record, in case there's any confusion "colored" and Negro both go into the outdated/offensive box today.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4949
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | 4
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My aunt still uses the term"negro". She has been using it for a long time and I have no plans to tell her not to.
In Canada, the Indian population has taken many names. Indian, Native, Indigionous person, First Nation, Aboriginal, etc. It is impossible to keep up with the latest word of the week so I use Indian. I was told years ago from a friend that he prefered Indian so that is what I use.
PS. Eskimo is now a bad word. The "correct" term is Inuit. I bet most Americans didn't know that they are racist if they use Eskimo. Shows how nutty Canada has got.
What I don't understand is why someone gets so upset over what they are called. I am in China where I am a huge minority. I am also in a rural town, where there is about 6 white people out of a population of hundreds of thousands. People follow us, stare, point and laugh. I don't get upset or indignent. I am comfortable with who I am and could not care less what someone else thinks about me. Why people get so nuts if they are called First Nation or Indian is beyond me. Serious inferiority complex or something.
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Jim Yingst
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 866
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | 5
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Glenn- no, my own experiences with such matters have been pretty laid-
back, no big deal. I just wanted to point out that calling people what they
prefer, while a good idea in general, isn't always feasible.
Frank, I agree, makes sense. Wonder if it will ever catch on more widely.
----
And now a few words from Bloom County:
Mom: That's the most adorable little colored girl playing outside.
Steve: "Colored"? You're saying "colored people" in 1988? You know
better, Ma.
Mom: Then why the "National Association for Colored People? I don't
think Negroes mind at all.
Steve: Don't say "Negroes," Ma! You can't say "Negroes"!
Mom: Can I say "United Negro College Fund"?
Steve: You are baiting me, Ma!
Dad: That's it. We're leaving.
Mom: Stay put, Reginald. "Mister Socially Sensitive"isn't finished shaming
his parents into enlightenment.
Steve: Everybody just calm down. Let's agree to use the the New-Age
term "People of Color."
Mom: People of Color.
Steve: People of Color.
Mom: Colored people.
Steve: NO!!
Dad: We're leaving.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4949
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 6
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That Bloom County strip is a classic.
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Valerie Finnigan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 March 2006
Posts: 838
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | 7
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I have always had issues with racial labelling and so I basically don't call anyone anything.
My children have encountered racism and even sadly learned a thing or
two about hate crime at a very early age. Trying to explain racist
incidents that had affected our family, such as the rude behavior
directed toward my sister and her boyfriend or the trouble we had with
some Neo-Nazi cranks, gave me some new insights as to how to correctly
perceive these things. My daughter refused to believe that there's any
such thing as a person with really black skin, and said, "I'm not
white. I'm light pink."
So I had to change my phrasing from "black" and "white" to "brown" and
"pink." Then when I explained that some people hate other people simply
for having brown skin, my son said, "Mommy, they hate you too! You have
a brown spot here, and here, and here..." while pointing to one
freckle, then another, then another....
At any rate,I figure that most of the time, a person's ethnicity is not
even relevant to the conversation, so I rarely if ever mention it.
Sometimes, though, it is relevant. As I teach Irish dance, people ask
if I'm Irish, or if they have to be Irish to join my classes, and my
answers are usually limited to "Half, not that it matters, and no."
Referring to a person's nation of origin or tribal affiliation if known
and only when relevant I find is a bit less politically charged. I
mean, Ugandan, Lebanese, Shoshoni, German, Korean, Cree, Maori, and so
forth hardly qualify as slurs.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4949
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| Posted: 10 September 2006 at 11:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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Exactly Valerie. The whole ideas that your tribal affiliation somehow defines who you are always seemed to me a racist idea. The smallest minority is the individual. Terms like "acting black" or "red apple" (Indian on the outside, white on the inside) or "not being true to your roots" are offensive and reduce the person to a statistic. There are nice guys of all races and there are jerks in all races. Some cultural practices are wrong and should be stopped and some are fine. Multiculturalism is wrong as it places every culture on an equal level, and that is not right. Any culture that seeks to control its members or a cultural practice that is harmful should not be tolerated.
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: 11 September 2006 at 12:17am | IP Logged | 9
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But it's okay to continue using the word "Negro" even though you've been advised that it is considered offensive to many?
I think you should re-read Valerie's post. Unless I'm misunderstanding her point, I don't think she is saying the same thing you are.
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Robert Last
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2006
Posts: 615
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| Posted: 11 September 2006 at 1:04am | IP Logged | 10
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Please excuse my ignorance, but is there any legal definitions to ethnicity? Is it based purely on appearance or some familial level? I.E. If your parents are say white and AA, are you legally one or the other? And how far back does it go? What if you only have one relative, say a grandmother who is AA? I ask this as I've seen AA who are basically as white as me with almost no classic AA features.
No offence intended in any of the above, simply curious as to if there are any legal connotations to all this.
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Jim Yingst
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 866
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| Posted: 11 September 2006 at 1:14am | IP Logged | 11
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It's true that much of the time race/ethnicity is irrelevant and as such
should not be mentioned. But there are times when it does come up, and
it would be nice to be able to just mention it without it requiring
extended linguistic discssion. This thread started with the original poster
referring to himself as African American. Subsequently there was a lot of
bitching and moaning about the existence of this phrase, how it makes
no sense, yadda yadda, and here we are on page 5. It's not as though the
original poster was asking anyone else to even use the term, but
apparently the very mention of the phrase was enough to get some
people going off about it. Would be nice if people could just mention
the concept of race without setting off a round of grousing about
linguistics.
On a lighter note, by coincidence, I was just watching the final DVD of
Arrested Development, and came across this gem:
Gob: Anyway, it involves us making some money with our Mexican friends
from Colombia.
Michael: I think they're called Colombians.
Gob: Oh, I forgot, we're being "politically correct".
Edited by Jim Yingst on 11 September 2006 at 1:21am
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4949
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| Posted: 11 September 2006 at 1:22am | IP Logged | 12
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Glenn: Offensive to many but not all. What happens if a person is offended by "black" and prefers to be called "negro"? That was my example with Canadian Indians. Some do not like the modern politically correct terms and prefer to use the older word.
With my aunt using negro, my point was that she has been using that word since 1950 and that it is would be extremelty hard for her to stop. And in the long run, does it really matter?
What I meant about agreeing with Valerie was her comment about race not being relevent.
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Topic Closed)
