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Rick Senger
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9688
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 1 post reply
I particularly like panel four of today's page. You really capture the motion of Colossus' debris sweeping. I was going to ask a technical question about whether you draw the fragments first then add Colossus last but by opening my eyes it appears you did the reverse and erased the bits of Colossus beneath the debris after as needed. However you did it, it came out nicely.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 2 post reply
Yep, in recent years my electric eraser has become a go-to tool. Started when I was working on Spider-Man and realized I could make my life easier by drawing the full backgrounds around Doctor Octopus and then erasing the paths of his arms. Just a quick skip from that to erasing the shapes of foreground elements, especially debris.
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Scott Barnett
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Joined: 14 December 2018
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Posts: 263
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 3 post reply
Aw, man- considering Colossus' reaction to Wolverine accidentally tripping Kitty out of the Stratojet in issue 1, I'd say Logan is due for the beat down of a lifetime. As if he hasn't been put through enough in this series.

Unless, of course, Kitty had avoided his attack with her power.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply
Jim Shooter as an editor seems like mister stop and start... instead of let's keep the vehicle moving and get things better the next time out it seems like it was slam the brakes on and go back and redo this and that, and not just once with The X-Men. Denny O'Neil in contrast (and many others) seemed to be more about, we've hired good people, let them get the job done their way and if necessary at the end of the line I'll add an editorial footnote. Maybe Shooter could work well with just the writers better than with artists? A rewrite before any art is there would be much easier than a rewrite after the art is there. If he signed off on a plot but then doesn't like it when it's drawn and scripted he should mostly get out of the way, but someone was 'correcting' things even post-lettering at Marvel from original art I've seen. Not that he would be wrong to speak up for the D'Bari who needed that particular sun. Should be a fairly rare case something genuinely unexpected like that crops up.

Of course I could be wrong, maybe everything was done to avoid such problems and Shooter was just particualrly unlucky with the people working at the time? Also, I suppose he really wanted to avoid the sudden fill-in reprint or inventory/album issue of the '70s Marvels before him. But you look at comics where he was the writer and there were a lot of stops and starts and going back and lots of changes... something in his approach was just not working smoothly with Jim Shooter as editor I would say. Probably the Marvel method itself of not having fully detailed scripts was incompatible with him? It's like some of these bands where one guy wants to micromanage every aspect and the others get resentful feeling like passengers or functionaries on someone else's trip and the band has all these different lineups or simply breaks up. Comics as a collaborative form which Marvel allowed for versus the straightjacket earlier DC comics were in. Even the writer-editor thing didn't work smoothly with Shooter whereas it worked for many years earlier with Roy Thomas but hit snags when he went to DC.

Generally, killing major (ie. valuable to the publisher) or even supporting characters has proven over time to be a waste of time if momentarily dramatic/collectable/historic. You might as well have the death of Tarzan or even Little Lulu is how I feel, and that would or should seem bizarre to almost anyone. Gwen Stacy came back, The Green Goblin came back, Aunt May came back, Mister Terrific came back, Elektra came back, Supergirl came back, Superman came back, Hellcat came back... they will all come back, more than once as often as not. Duh. If there is planning for it in advance it can work out well enough, but how often has that been the case? Mostly it's just intelligence insulting at this stage to "kill' any character owned by a company, done for a short term boost. Nothing worse than yet another death special issue now. They didn't do it with Dr. Doom and Lex Luthor and they aren't going to do it with any character they think can still sell something.

Well, I'm sure hoping Kitty is not dead anyway. :^)
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 22 July 2020 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply
Shooter’s whim of iron ofttimes tended to retroactive. Take his decision that all stories must be single issues AS OF RIGHT NOW. Not as soon as you’re done with what you’re working on, but STARTING with what you’re working on.

Which was a major contributing factor in Rog and me leaving CAPTAIN AMERICA.

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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 22 July 2020 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply
Have you ever used that mirror “trick”, JB?
••

Not that I recall.
----------------------
Does the reflection in Iron Man's helmet in one of your
West Coast Avengers count?
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply
Hm........
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Lee Thacker
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Joined: 24 November 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 10
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply
Jim Shooter was responsible for me pretty much giving up on mainstream (Marvel) comics in the '80s: Secret Wars, innumerable crossovers (which were impossible to keep up with in the UK due to poor distribution) and (without my knowledge at the time) his dictatorial stance on how stories should be told - no continuing stories, nine panel grids, no continuous backgrounds, killing Jean Grey (Phoenix) etc. The ONLY thing which kept me following 'mainstream' comics was the work of John Byrne (Superman, OMAC, Next Men). I'm really enjoying this Elsewhen series. Thank you so much, Mr Byrne, for making 'mainstream' comics enjoyable, entertaining and worth reading again.
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
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Posted: 22 July 2020 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply
Is everything in your list correct Lee? I don’t remember no continuing
stories (& crossovers would suggest against that one) or nine panel
grids.
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Brad Hague
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Joined: 19 December 2006
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Posted: 22 July 2020 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply
I was one of the few who really resisted the 1986 Fantastic Four 286 bringing back of Jean.

I resisted it for three reasons:

1.  I had lived through the series and felt the loss of Jean/Phoenix.  I felt at the time, this lessened the sacrifice and loss of Jean.  Yeah, I know it was the "Jean" that made Phoenix "human." But I could not reconcile the thought balloons attributed to Phoenix leading up to X-Men 137.  Especially during Proteus and the Jason Wyngard scenes.  If this were an evil supernatural super powerful space force, the thoughts were not congruent.  Really, to me it was Chris who made it impossible due to the writing.  Also, all the limitations placed on Phoenix (against Magneto in 113 etc.) seemed more reasonably placed upon Jean as opposed to a supernatural power.

2.  The results of bringing Jean back would destroy where Scott was in the X-Men (with a Jean copy "Madeline Pryor").  There was no way to reconcile bringing Jean back without making Scott look like a total schmuck.  And a schmuck they made him.  Really, it was the beginning of a snowball effect that ultimately resulted in Scott becoming completely unrecognizable. This ultimately drove me away from the X-Men completely.

3.  If felt like a ploy to sell the new upcoming X-Factor book.

Here, as presented, I no longer have to deal with reasons 2 or 3.  I have left only my first reason, and to be honest, time has gone so far (40 years since the "death" of Phoenix) that even the first reason has considerably lessened.

I must admit, I was hoping to avoid the 1986 version, but I am very interested in seeing how this plays out.

This Elsewhen is (for me):
1.  Certainly amazing.
2.  The best art I have seen in years.
3.  Better than anything at Marvel for decades.
4.  Captivating.
5.  Thought provoking.
6.  A reminder of why I loved comics in the first place.

Thank you for doing this.
Thank you for blowing minds again.
Thank you for making me care for these characters again.  This is the only place where I recognize them.  And love them.
You really are the best.
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Steven Queen
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Joined: 28 February 2020
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Posts: 940
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply
 Brad Hague wrote:

Thank you for doing this.
Thank you for blowing minds again.
Thank you for making me care for these characters again. This is the only place where I recognize them. And love them.
You really are the best.

Hear! Hear!
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Tim O Neill
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10937
Posted: 22 July 2020 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I read the return of Phoenix story years later as I wasn't collecting when it was
released. I liked it well enough, although I preferred the original story to stay
as it was.

ELSEWHEN has been kicking the original story's ass so far. It's not even a
contest.
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