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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 940
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 1
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Been away for a holiday. The only thing I used my phone for all week was to get a peek at the daily ELSEWHEN pages. That tiny screen doesn't do them justice.
I love the maniacal look in Phoenix's eyes when she aborts Jahf's attack. Better, I think, than the "all white" pupils of Jean-Fully-Possessed---although that has it's place too (thinking of that sequence in 136 when Jean returned to her parent's home, and we could see her eye's again).
Is is possible we have now seen more images of Jean/Dark Phoenix here than in the original run?
Every glimpse is a real treat. This amazing gift is so wonderful.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 2
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Hm. Dark Phoenix was "on camera" a relatively short time, first appearance.Somebody start counting!!
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12708
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 7:45am | IP Logged | 3
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I'm not a fan of Peter Jackson's LOTR movies, but at
least in the "Fellowship" movie the screenplay was
directly inspired enough by Tolkien to craft these
sentences:
>> History became legend. Legend became myth. And some
things that should not have been forgotten were lost.<<
Applicable to any mythos, certainly including that of the
Dark Phoenix saga. Interesting, though, that -- and
correct me if I'm wrong -- JB himself didn't have
anything to do with that transition from the history of
the story (both told and originally intended) developing
into the myth, from 1980 until he brought her back in
1986. That half decade made the myth!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 4
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Further on "Objectifying" the panel borders:
Seems Shooter isn't the only one who gets his knickers in a twist over this. Note that this guy (?) refers to my solution as a "cheat". But ask yourself this: of the two panels, one and three, do either actually serve the storytelling better than the other? (Personal preference: I find the first more dynamic.)
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8117
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 5
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"Hm. Dark Phoenix was "on camera" a relatively short time, first appearance."
--
She was kinda like the Dinos in the original JURASSIC PARK - little screen time with most of the focus on the affected characters - but when she appeared, oh boy!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 6
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Interesting, though, that -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- JB himself didn't have anything to do with that transition from the history of the story (both told and originally intended) developing into the myth, from 1980 until he brought her back in 1986. That half decade made the myth!•• Indeed! In fact, it was Chris' refusal to just LET IT GO* that made it possible for us to bring Jean back. Altho a few--very few--fans were upset that I'd "ruined" such a great story, in fact it was Chris who had revisited Phoenix so many times that she was referred to around the office as the "least dead" dead character Marvel had. I used to joke that we would soon see a scene where Scott stops at a red light and the color makes him think of Phoenix. . . . . . ELSEWHEN, as I have already noted, is a combination of two independed storylines. What might had happened had Jean/Phoenix not died, and what we did about that in 1986. All set more or less "now", of course. _________________________________ * First one of you to link to a video of FROZEN will suffer the Torture of a Thousand Agonies!
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Michael Genitempo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 428
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 7
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I've long felt that Dark Phoenix falls very much into the same category as Gwen Stacy.
If Gwen, like Peter's other girlfriends, had merely drifted off, she would not have created such a massive wound across the face of the Spider-Man mythos. She would have stood next to Betty Brant and Liz Allen.
So, too, if Chris and I had done the story we originally intended, with Phoenix becoming a recurring villain and, most likely, eventually being "rehabilitated", there's no way the story would have cast such a long and deep shadow.
>>
I totally agree. For me it was a combination of the "you don't know what you've got until it's gone" thing and the feeling that the characters had a "wrongful" death(at least in my mind). I can remember, even though I was a child at the time, drawing a short comic just so Jean's death could be "fixed"!
Maybe it's related to the Florence Nightingale syndrome with wanting to aid the injured person...
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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 940
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 8
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JB wrote:
Further on "Objectifying" the panel borders:
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I think that if your view point is low like the 1st frame, then floor@border would be a totally legitimate perspective...which, as JB says, can be a very dynamic viewpoint.
Moving the eye higher, you see the floor-as-a-receding-plane (per frame 3) and the figures move vertically relative to each other. Meh.
It leaves me wondering if the same scene was rendered from an even lower view-point (chopping off their feet), if that would be even more dynamic.
Ultimately, Shooter trying to impose "rules" for art was probably a futile exercise---he should've just looked at the final product and commented on anything he felt didn't work well. (A non-artist managing artists issue?)
(I also like #1 better than #2. What's the beef?)
Edited by Steven Queen on 22 July 2020 at 9:06am
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 9
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Okay, they're at the safe room. Wonder how fast Colossus can dig to the sickbay...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 10
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When it comes to drawing comics, there is really only one “rule”: clarity. Unless there is some specific story reason for details and information to be obscured, each panel and page should be presented as clearly as possible. This is one reason I try to include something like an establishing shot on every page. Keep the reader firmly grounded in the reality. Unless, again, there is a valid reason not to.
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Rick Senger
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 11
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But ask yourself this: of the two panels, one and three, do either actually serve the storytelling better than the other?
(Personal preference: I find the first more dynamic.)
*****
I like the novelty of the first panel but overall I think my credo would be variety (and, as you rightly say, clarity.) John Buscema liked to vary the camera angles in a particularly pleasing way; he didn't necessarily change it up tremendously from issue to issue but there was generally something dynamic about his variations that always kept me interested.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6426
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| Posted: 22 July 2020 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 12
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Don't open that door, Peter.
There's a monster on the other side of that door.
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