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James Revilla Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2266
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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 4:02am | IP Logged | 1
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Maybe they are designing her to be more in line with the Green Lantern movie version.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134200
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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 5:03am | IP Logged | 2
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If any current actress would be perfect to play Amanda Waller, I think it would be Patricia Belcher from BONES. •• I'd vote for Yvette Nicole Brown, from COMMUNITY. Every time Shirley flashes anger, I see my Amanda.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134200
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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 3
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i always kinda wondered how fans reacted to Perez's "slimming down" of Etta Candy *** That, at least, had internal motivation and character development beyond "taking a chubby character and making her into a sexy babe." •• Yet, I find myself asking why the resistance to chubby or even fat characters? I created Roger Bochs as a fat guy, and the moment I let go of him, he slimmed down, got his legs back, and started chasing Heather Hudson! In LOST GENERATION I created a deliberately heavy-set character, and Roger Stern surprised me by a suggesting future subplot about him losing weight.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2877
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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 6:25am | IP Logged | 4
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Probably because while most Americans are overweight, we view overweight people as "ugly", "lazy", and worst of all, "unhealthy". (Yeah, even after losing over 50lbs, the chart still say I'm overweight, maybe even obese. )
In the old days, you wanted to show someone as dasterly, you give him a cigarette. Now, if you want an ugly, lazy or unhealthy person, you can make him overweight.In some ways, I think we view "thin ideal" like we do Superman. He is "better than us". He isn't what we are currently, but what wish we were. We aren't thin like all these characters, but we view thin as better and what wish we were.
And nowadays, if you want to show a hero as better than us in the areas of courage, morals and values, that now means they can't be fat, because being and choosing to be thin is a desired value. (After all, even though we know it isn't all will power, we believe it is.)
The thing is, Amanda Waller isn't a hero; isn't better than us. But that "unhealthy" thing is worse than murder.
Edited by Kip Lewis on 17 September 2011 at 6:31am
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Marcel Chenier Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2723
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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 5
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Kip, what you write reminds me of an old commentary on fashion models and fashion magazine consumers: female readers of fashion mags don't want to be rem- inded of themselves in any way, shape, or form.
Thus, the trend towards having "real-life" models, that are not near-anorexic and carry some weight (what you and I might call a 'normal' or a 'natural' female figure) are not actually favoured among the majority of consumers.
They want something that they can project their hopes and aspirations onto, something that takes them out of themselves and into their imagination. Unfortunately, with photo manipulation, they're projecting themselves into a world outside of the realm of human possibility.
Moreover with comics, I think creators tend to get stuck in the same rut of presenting physically perfect heroes, while forgetting that it is the character that makes the hero and not, as the great philosopher Zoolander might suggest, 'perfect hair, a strong chin, chiselled abs, and being really, really, ridiculously good-looking.'
Edited by Marcel Chenier on 17 September 2011 at 9:18am
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Tony Midyett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: United States Posts: 2834
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Posted: 20 September 2011 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 6
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As a guy who likes zaftig women, I get really bored with comics, TV, and movies showing us one bony model after the other, and insist that we find them attractive. Well, sorry, but I don't. Most actresses and models make me want to go to the store and buy them a bag of groceries, hand them to the girls and say, "Here, you really need these!".
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134200
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Posted: 21 September 2011 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 7
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This thread has gotten me thinking about a bunch of characters I designed, or at least was the first to draw, who did not stay in their original forms for long.Emma Frost springs first to mind. I drew her deliberately flat chested, to be a contrast to the standard issue Marvel female. From the same story, I drew Kitty Pryde as a "young Sigourney Weaver", but it took almost no time at all for her to turn into Brooke Shields. Gary Cody, the character in ALPHA FLIGHT, was based on Gary Cody, my friend in real life. Later he was turned into ME! Roger Bochs, as noted above, did not retain his original form long after I let go of him. Elizabeth Twoyoungmen, another female character I designed to be physically different from so many others, has packed on the pounds, mostly in her chest, since I left. Perhaps the worst was the fate of Cassie Sandsmark, in WONDER WOMAN, who I designed to look as much like a real 14 year old girl as I could, and who, once I was gone, almost overnight turned into Britney Spears.
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16591
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Posted: 21 September 2011 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 8
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I believe that too may artists in comics seem incapable of drawing "real" people, especially thinner or more heavy people (unless they are The Blob's size). I recall being disappointed that Sam Guthrie and Rahne Sinclair of The New Mutants went from being a tall, gawky Southern boy with big ears, and a small, reserved young girl with a typical body type, to a tall, handsome, stereotypical-looking hero, and a tall, and more sexy-looking woman.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134200
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Posted: 21 September 2011 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 9
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The "this is how / draw" school has really worked some serious mischief in comics over the past 25 years or so. When I started at Marvel, we were still being told to stay on model, and for the most part were happy to do so. After all, why would we want to draw "our" versions of the characters, when it was Kirby/Ditko/Romita/Buscema/etc who had drawn us into the fold in the first place?Alas, the egos seem to have come much more to the fore, and now the first thing an artist wants to do is make his "mark" on a character. Unfortunately, the imaginations seem so incredibly limited, that many want to make the SAME mark! ("I just had a great idea! Let's give hims some POUCHES!")
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 21 September 2011 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 10
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It looks to me that they've made Sam shorter.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 21 September 2011 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 11
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Cassie rates as one of the worst make overs. I don't understand why fans or creators can't relate to stories about different people or genders or w/e. I read about characters I have nothing in common with and don't identify as all the time.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 21 September 2011 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
It looks to me that they've made Sam shorter. |
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Even Rob Liefeld kept him fairly in character. It was the guys after him who beefed him up and made him a pretty boy iirc. And Rahne who was stuck with brush like straight hair suddenly grew luxurious beautiful tresses to go along with her new rack. She was reuglified in X-Factor but she's pretty again. I don't like Perez's reimagining of Wonder Woman, it was fun and pretty and I enjoyed the addition of characters to her cast but it could've been done in another book. I'm a big defender of "campy" WW though so I am biased.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 21 September 2011 at 9:21am
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