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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 1
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So I certainly wouldn't classify this venture as a period of time (1991) in which Marvel would want to look back at and emulate.
True, but isn't it a sound idea to target the glut of new readers (amoung the speculator throngs <g>) who were turned onto comics at that moment in history? For example, as someone who started reading in the early 80s, my interest was piqued by recent books by Johns and Metzger (fans of the same era), although the quality of the work remains the main 'selling factor' for me.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 2
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JB, how many stories did you have in mind for Hidden Years when it was cancelled?, Did you want to go a hundred issuesor something?•• I had no specific number in mind, but in a perfect world I'd still be working on it.
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Rick Whiting Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Posts: 2218
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 3
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Well judging by the falling sales figures for most of Marvel's books, I think that they MIGHT rethink some of their recent and past creative and editorial decisions. Of course, a change in EIC (and maybe even a change in publisher) would most likely have to happen for things to change at Marvel. is it a longshot, of course, but it is not out of the realm of possibility.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36094
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 4
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Greg Woronchak wrote:
isn't it a sound idea to target the glut of new readers (amoung the speculator throngs <g>) who were turned onto comics at that moment in history? For example, as someone who started reading in the early 80s, my interest was piqued by recent books by Johns and Metzger (fans of the same era), although the quality of the work remains the main 'selling factor' for me. |
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With a few books, maybe. As a mandate to return to a specific period of time, in this case 1991, because a large chunk of your readership became fans then, no. That way, to me, lies madness. It would be appealing to the same aging fan, with all the same problems, as we're seeing now. In addition, I don't know that there really was a "glut" of new readers at that time. How can we really tell being in the middle of the speculator boom market? Tons of those comics were left on the shelves as evidenced by millions of copies of X-MEN 1 being currently available for less than a dollar. Still more were snatched up in the multiples, often exceeding 100 copies per, by individual collectors hoping to have discovered gold but only came away with fools gold. After the bust of the speculator market, we were left with fewer readers than we were before the boom, so I'm not sold that there ever was a glut of new readers who discovered a love of the medium over turning a quick profit. Is that really where we want Marvel to return? Do we really want to cater to that group of people simply because they may have come aboard our decidedly small train?
I say just worry about staying on model, telling good, compelling stories, getting your product in front of as many eyes as possible (preferably young ones) and not concerning yourself with mega crossovers, event-style storytelling, and the latest shock twist, and the audience should come. I think targeting an entire comic book company to one audience that came around nearly 20 years ago spells certain doom.
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William Byrd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 165
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 5
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I don't like the time period on comics, per se, but I do like old school writers that don't do all the decompression you see now.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 6
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Basically, you're discussing something I have mentioned from time to time, under the umbrella title "Rewind". The idea would be to look at each Marvel book, decide when it was really at its best, and then reset everything to that point. Not unlike what they have recently done in the Spider-Man titles, but as an editorial fiat, rather than a story stunt.Most importantly, tho, would be reviewing each title individually, and not worrying about any sort of overall "continuity". So if FANTASTIC FOUR was at its best in 1966 (a date picked entirely at random), X-MEN in 1972 and THOR in 1980, the books would be restored to the status quo they then held. Perhaps equally important -- and possibly most difficult to get thru to some lunkheaded fans and pros -- would be that the stories would not be set in the Past. Everything would continue to happen now.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36094
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 7
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Rick Whiting wrote:
Well judging by the falling sales figures for most of Marvel's books, I think that they MIGHT rethink some of their recent and past creative and editorial decisions. Of course, a change in EIC (and maybe even a change in publisher) would most likely have to happen for things to change at Marvel. is it a longshot, of course, but it is not out of the realm of possibility. |
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It's not just falling sales for Marvel. It's falling sales for comic books across the board. In other words, it's not just a Marvel thing and DC, Image, Dark Horse, etc. are doing just fine.
Also, "rethinking some of their recent and past creative and editorial decisions" is far different that a wholesale change where the characters are all magically transported to some point in time where they weren't "screwed up". The former could most certainly lead to a lessening of event books, although no matter how much we might scream and wail about them they do almost always sell better than a standard run on any book. The latter, however, is totally subjective. I mean, what isn't screwed up for Character A to me might be totally screwed up to you. Where does that line appear? JB isn't a fan of a lot of Marvel in the 70s, but that's the point in time where I jumped aboard so I love it. If a company wide mandate was to reset all characters to 1967, I'd be left out as would millions of others. If you reset one character to 1967, another to 1973, still another to 1981, and a smattering to 2000, I think it would be totally confusing.
So no, I do think it's out of the realm of possibility especially when Marvel, like DC, is nothing more than R&D for everything but the comic books themselves.
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Arc Carlton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009 Location: Peru Posts: 3493
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 8
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I don't know if Marvel would even want that success even if it were
right in front of them. They so want to be a media company, not just a
publisher of comic books. Which means creating events, putting out
press releases, getting on the news, etc. ___________________________
Don't forget the movies.
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Keith Thomas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3082
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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I say just worry about staying on model, telling good,
compelling stories, getting your product in front of as
many eyes as possible (preferably young ones) and not
concerning yourself with mega crossovers, event-style
storytelling, and the latest shock twist, and the
audience should come. I think targeting an entire comic
book company to one audience that came around nearly 20
years ago spells certain doom.
That's what I was trying to convey, to go back to the
time when those were the standards the "pre-Image" era if
you will. I think the buzz of Forever and the possibility
of Evermore shows that those are the enduring, lasting
versions of the charcters that stay with people. I doubt
in the future there will be people clamoring or wishing
for the 90's versions of the characters. How many times
have the characters been re-imaged since then? They
wouldn't need to be if they were good to begin with.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'd like to warp back to some policy that most comics be writen and drawn as to at least take 15 minutes to read, or ideally, 20. If there's less dialogue, then cram more panels of interesting things to look at, to make up for it. XMF reads a bit fast, but at least it's biweekly! And of course, there's still some comics that take a decent time to be read but it's not the norm.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 25 June 2009 at 12:48pm
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Keith Thomas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3082
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 11
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XMF reads a bit fast, but at least it's biweekly
It read fast for me only because I already read the 7 page
preview last week so I only got 15 "new" pages, but that's
my own fault. I'm going to avoid any future previews.
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Larry Morris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 622
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Posted: 25 June 2009 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
The latter, however, is totally subjective. I mean, what isn't screwed up for Character A to me might be totally screwed up to you. Where does that line appear? |
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Yep. Who decides where the line is? Take the X Men in particular. Who is right? The people who say that Claremont had lost it long before he left the first time? The people who left when he left? I stopped buying when Grant Morrison was writing the book.
In fairness to Marvel, they did not pick some arbitrary point based on quality. 1991 is when Claremont left. The idea is he never left. That's when the book will pick up. It's not like they are saying 1991 was the apex of the book's history.
I'll believe this book, set in the past, is going to outsell the mainstream core books when I see it. Sales are really low right now, but there is a recession going on. It's not me defending the quality of the books either. I don't buy anything from them. Too much damage, in my opinion, to too many characters I care about. But the sales still say that Marvel sells a lot more comics than anyone else.
Seems to me that the beauty of FOREVER and a book that John Byrne might do is that they don't affect anything else. The people who like the current versions can continue to read them. The people who want to read older versions could read them. If there is a market for these types of books, if it's what enough people want to read, it should show up in the sales.
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