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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133584
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 1
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We have the term "comic books" due to the original function of the format
being to reprint pages from the Sunday comics (or funnies - thus, Funny
Books) from the newspapers. What's odd is that the Sunday Funnies have
long contained the likes of DICK TRACY, FLASH GORDON, REX MORGAN,
MARK TRAIL, and even SUPERMAN and BATMAN -- a whole fleet of strips, in
other words, that were not considered "funny", yet no one seems to have
complained that they were in the "comics", or been surprised when their
humor was minimal.
What is it about comicbooks, I wonder, that has caused the term "comic" to
be applied in such a narrow sense, despite the much broader origin of the
name?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133584
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 2
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DARK KNIGHT RETURNS was published originally as four "bookshelf format" issues -- basically scaled down graphic novels. The format and the term were invented for several reasons, some of them legal, and at least one was because stuff was coming out that did not qualify as "graphic novels" in the strictest sense. -- JB, what were the legal reasons? •• DC and Marvel got into a little skirmish over who "owned" the terms "graphic novel", "bookshelf edition" and "prestige format".
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Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 3
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Dark Knight Returns was published here to lauch the new ongooing Batman comic books first, then separately in paperback, both times the comic book size. First entitled Leatherlap - The Night's Avenger then as a movie "tie-in" Batman - The Ruler of Darkness. In the latter Batman was his name as in the movie.
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Gene Best
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4598
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 4
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Thanks, JB - hadn't heard that before. (One thing I
love about this board is finding out the behind-the-
scenes stuff going on during that time.)
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 5
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"First entitled Leatherlap "
"Läderlappen" translates as "bat" not "leatherlap" just like "Fliedermaus" translates as "bat", not "flying mouse". Not to mention that "lapp" would be "a small piece of cloth or paper / native of Lappland" not "lap".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesper_bat
(Läderlapper or the family of Vesper Bats.)
"Leatherlap" just sounds like some sordid joke out of a Garth Ennis superhero comic.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133584
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 6
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…just like "Fliedermaus" translates as "bat", not "flying mouse"…
••
During the Adam West days, Canadian comedians Johnny Wayne and Frank
Shuster did a parody of BATMAN on one of their Specials on the CBC. They
threw in an extra wrinkle, having the series set in Germany. Batman became
Herr Fledermaus, which at the time I thought was kinda cool!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 7
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"Leatherlap" just sounds like some sordid joke out of a Garth Ennis
superhero comic.
••
Something a small army of ennui-choked "fans" would declare
breathtakingly hip and sophisticated. Especially if the character spoke in
some kind of indecipherable mumble they could ape in their internet
postings.
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Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 8
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No, Knut, Läderlapp is not equal to Fliedermaus, we say Fladdermus. Läderlapp is a piece of leather, save it that you looked in some very old dictionary. Lap could be a flapping part. The word "Läderlapper", is that from the dreaded Wikipedia? It's, "läderlappar", but never mind. I think Läderlappen was a good name, very cool.
http://www.edovan.net/batman/viewer.asp?cont=artiklar/logoty per/logotyper
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Pedro Bouça
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1465
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 9
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"What is it about comicbooks, I wonder, that has caused the term "comic" to
be applied in such a narrow sense, despite the much broader origin of the
name?"
I think it has to do with the fact that comic books had to fight long and hard for mainstream acceptance, while comic strips had an easier way, being part of big, mainstream vehicles since the beginning.
And since we are talking about nomenclature, on its best-seller lists, New York Times is calling comics - get ready - "graphic books"! Ouch! Graphic novels doesn't seem so bad anymore...
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| DC and Marvel got into a little skirmish over who "owned" the terms "graphic novel", "bookshelf edition" and "prestige format". |
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I had no idea that one could make a "legit" case of owning a descriptive term.
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Thomas Fels
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 130
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 11
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"Läderlapp is not equal to Fliedermaus, we say Fladdermus. Läderlapp is a piece of leather, save it that you looked in some very old dictionary."
True. But there are some species of Fladdermus that are called Läderlapp.
And comic books are called serietidningar in swedish. Serie=comic and tidningar=papers.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
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| Posted: 07 March 2009 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 12
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"No, Knut, Läderlapp is not equal to Fliedermaus, we say Fladdermus"
I didn't write that the words meant the same, I wrote that they were equal in that they were compund nouns meaning "bat" (or species of bat) that could be pulled apart and read to mean something different.You don't present a literal translation of component nouns as the proper translation of the compund, or remove the meaning (denotative or connotative) that you purport to translate. You might write "Läderlappen - literally 'piece of leather'." but that's it.
Also : "Läderlappen" is the swedish name of the famous german opera "Die Fliedermaus", making the comparison acceptable.
And finally : There is to my knowledge no meaning of the swedish word "Lapp" that translates as "lap" in english.
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Topic Closed)
