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Topic: What constitutes a swipe? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Trevor Giberson
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 1  

Kirby is like Eisner... there's no point in looking for an heir.  There's never going to be one.
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 2  

 

 

Glenn Greenberg: thanks for being part of that great INCREDIBLE HULK VS SUPERMAN story.

That Rude work, and the fantastic (not kidding, THE MOTH is just great...complete with those Ditko/Kirby fight scenes both men excelled in, showing each instance of the fight along with background details showing the way the bodies are reacting in the fight from second to second...) MOTH are two of THE most fun comics I've read since "returning".

Steve Rude's one of the best artists of his generation, if not THE best. I love that guy...

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 3  

"Rob Liefeld had the
distinction of having had the most books on the market (at that time)
featuring characters created by him (Cable, Deadpool, X-Force,
Youngblood, Team Youngblood, Supreme, Bloodstrike, Brigade and New
Men).
"

If you counted all the Liefeld-Image-Extreme Studios titles that were soliticited in the pages of Previews, he could have had more product than anyone else besides Marvel or DC.

Of course we know what happened to THOSE books.

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Erik Larsen
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 4  

 Tom Aquin wrote:
I've always seen your comparission of Kirby and Liefeld
as an extreme way of pointing out that, while there might be some artists
who have drawn as many pages as him; or created many characters, using
sheer quantity as elegibility for the 'crown' was stupid. There is no heir of
Kirby, he'll always be king.


My point exactly.
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Trevor Giberson
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 5  



Steve Rude's art reminds me a lot of Russ Manning's.

Edited by Trevor Giberson on 21 February 2008 at 6:51pm
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Erik Larsen
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Wayne Osborne wrote:

But in all seriousness, couldn't those characters of Rob's be considered
just
another form of swiping? How does that relate to what we've been talking
about?


I'm not going to argue that point.

But somehow--Rob does have a knack for taking the familiar and
rearranging things just enough to give the illusion of having created
something. As much as Deadpool feels like Spider-Man--he's different
enough that he has that vibe at the same time as seeming to be
something new. Rob changes and redraws and rearranges things just
enough to make it work.

But then--we can get into the whole "what constitutes an original
character?" debate. Some would argue that no character with super
strength or super speed or stretching ability etc., etc. could qualify.

I've certainly had enough people give me a "he's just the Hulk with a fin"
critique of my own Savage Dragon to last me a lifetime. "Yeah, yeah--and
the Hulk is just Martian Manhunter with Moe Howard's hair."

Life goes on...
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Wayne Osborne
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 7:08pm | IP Logged | 7  

Fair enough.

Thanks for the Martian Manhunter/Moe Howard bit - I'd never heard that.

Best,

WO
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 8  

Steve Rude is good!
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 9  

This may be slightly off-topic (or maybe it isn't) but this leads into
something that's been a question of mine for a while now:

What is the deal with Steve Rude?

I know a lot of people like him, but I'm not familiar with him; all I've seen
is a few commissions that have been posted here. And all I see is Kirby
rip-off. Is he a decent artist in his own right, or is he just someone aping
Kirby for fun and profit?

***

Al, run to the comic shop and get yourself some Nexus! Steve Rude is one of the best in the industry right now.

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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 10  

Rude tends to base his drawings of characters on the original artists' renditions (note the very Shuster-ish Superman he does) so anytime he does anything with a Kirby character you're going to see some pretty extreme Kirby influence.  For a better feel of his own stuff, check out Nexus.  Well worth it.  (Moth is pretty, but I don't like it as much.)
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 11  

 

I don't think Tom Scioli is a rat-bastard who doesn't understand the fundamentals of influence. He's a guy who sees Kirby Art as a genre IN AND OF ITSELF.

Some of you haven't read enough of the man's views on what he does. I don't like speaking for Scioli, but he sees CLEARLY that Kirby is a genre, a very important stylistic choice that he wishes (perhaps too ardently) to express. I'd think every artist begins to develop what they want the art to look like...they want to be Russ Manning, or Gene Colan, or Ditko, or John Buscema. And every artist in comics HAS a lineage that emerges with every stroke.

It'd be easy enough to write off Scioli as a hack and, worse, a pretentious hack. I think this is unfair and unwise. The very nature, the very CORE of GODLAND is that it is a Kirby Work...there's a universe in which Kirby's New York and its SF trappings contain Eternals, Cap and the Falcon slipping in and out of dimensions, Black Panther and Mr. Big chasing golden frogs, and Jason Blood shouting a rhyme while his face contorts with shadows from Hell. That universe is where Scioli's mind has chosen to inhabit, and he's operating within the visual landscape as if, indeed, he stepped through a Boom Tube and was himself transformed into a Kirby character, at once more handsome, dynamic, and distinct that at any other point in his life.

And I'm going to argue that, indeed, Scioli is not "aping" Kirby.

He's literalizing his concept of the Kirbyverse...not channeling, but wondering what would happen...just what would happen if Ben Boxer became the Silver Surfer, within the rules of the Kirbyverse. The air, as breathed from a Kirby pen. The sidewalk, poured and solidified from Kirby's pen. Cosmic tripwires and massive god-like accounting...as Kirby saw it and "lived" it.

I've read all of the GODLAND trades and I won't pretend that Scioli's work doesn't lack the decades and thousands of hours of experience and professionalism of Kirby...it's not even close. It's not even worth talking about.

But I won't blame Scioli for wanting to exist in the Kirbyverse. I won't take him apart and attribute to him a hack title, because he is trying to touch, even for an instant, the Monolith of Kirby's cosmic talent. In so doing, who's to say Scioli might not carry on from Neanderthal to Astronaut?

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Al Cook
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 12  


 QUOTE:
Rob changes and redraws and rearranges things just
enough to make it work.


No, he doesn't. It's never worked.







Edited for unnecessary snippyness.

Edited by Al Cook on 21 February 2008 at 8:25pm
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