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Ivor Sobakayob
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 November 2006
Posts: 21
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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Play you people like a fiddle, the problem is that you all stick your chins out.
Edited by Ivor Sobakayob on 12 November 2006 at 4:39pm
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 2
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Matt Linton wrote:
And considering the how well the Mods handle actual
trolls, I wish people would just ignore them (the trolls) and let the Mods deal
with them, rather than making honest fans feel unwelcome for stating a
different opinion. |
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Hear, hear!
(I'm looking at you at the moment, Al.)
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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Look somewhere else, John.
Civility is a two way street, and I'm not going to sit back when someone says
that I kiss ass.
As I said, I don't care if I get nuked for that. It needed to be said, and I had
a right to say it. JB has the right to respond as he will. And Ivor still has the
right to fuck off.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36132
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 4
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Hugh Cherry wrote:
| ... there are a lot of newbies who do show up here as fans (vs trolls, or troublemakers), and are looked down on by a good sized portion of the membership here for the mere fact they are newbies, they get tagged a troll or troublemaker, usually with a sarcastic comment like "from someone with such a large number of posts" tacked on to that. |
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I don't agree that "a good sized portion of the membership" does what you accuse them of, Hugh. I've seen it, no question, but I don't think it's a very large part of the JBF In any event, I agree that it's pretty crappy to say that someone can't have a valid opinion simply because their post count is low. That's pretty ridiculous. I guess the only time I see that as OK is if someone is contentious right off the bat. Why join at all if the very first post from your fingers is calling someone out or slamming a member or members for, shock of all shocks, being a fan of JB? Trust me, I see that all the time.
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Joe Mayer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 January 2005
Posts: 1397
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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I would agree with you, but you dont have over ten thousand posts. Who the heck do you think you are Mr.Matt Reed? Calling out poor old Hugh like that...jeeze. I now have a new definition for pretentious.
I do see where you are coming from, in all honesty. But, and I say this because I was one for a long time, there are a lot of lurkers around here. It might be because they agree, they want to see the commissions, or they just have read about the fuss and what to see what it is all about. For some, they may jump into a post because they do feel strongly about something and want to speak out about it. I don't think that is trollish, I think that is human. What is the phrase, "I'm sick and tired and I'm not going to take it anymore"?
Now, I am not saying there aren't trolls. It looks like one just joined up recently as a matter of fact. But I don't think the regular joes like me should make that call. I think that is something that should be left up to the Matt Reeds and Dave Pruitts and Dave Osbournes of the world. Who am I to judge and who I am to call someone out for how I judge. If people cut out all the false troll accusations, this would be a much nicer place.
I also think people shouldn't be able to put "thanks for playing" at the end of any post. That would make it nicer too.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36132
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | 6
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I do agree that accusing someone of being a troll almost seems synonymous with someone who simply has a dissenting opinion. I guess for me it's all in how you present your disagreement and not that you disagree. If you know me at all, I'm not talking about being PC, but I am talking about how that disagreement is voiced. Sometimes it's tactful and expressing a different POV. Cool. Other times it's as if you and I were discussing something over a cup of coffee and then someone butts in from another table and tells you you're wrong or that they don't agree with your opinion. Both are public places where you can't really have a private conversation, but there's a way to do it and a way not to do it and I don't think you have to have been a member for very long to understand common courtesy.
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | 7
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Al, I'm just sayin' it's better to ignore the trolls and let the moderators do
their job than get sucked into their game -- especially since that's exactly
what the trolls want you to do, get sucked in.
Rise above it.
Edited by John Mietus on 12 November 2006 at 5:26pm
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 8
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John, I agree with you. And the Mods here do a fine job. And this is JB's
house and he has every right to set whatever rules he wants.
Somebody comes in here and poking at JB, or other forum members in
general, in other words just plain trolling, the Mods and JB will do their
job as they see it.
But if someone directly tells me that I kiss ass, I'm going to tell them to
fuck off.
There's nothing to rise above. It's just a simple matter of self-respect. I
will not let people disrespect me like that.
I'm also man enough to accept that how I refuse to let people disrespect
me may have consequences.
But I do respect where you're coming from. Thanks for caring, man. It's
appreciated.
Edited by Al Cook on 12 November 2006 at 5:58pm
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 9
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I can understand the impulse to fight back when someone slams you (even if it is just on the internet), but it just doesn't lead anywhere positive. Much as I hate slippery slope arguments, I have to make one here.
You have a message board for fans of John Byrne. Everything's going along fine. Sure, you have one or two folks that piss you off, but that's going to be the case in any sizeable group of people. Then some outright trolls come along, taking shots that your average twelve year old would feel too mature to take. So people snap back, often responding at the same level as a troll. Cut to a few days/weeks/months later. Everyone's on the lookout for trolls. As if identifying them before they "out" themselves accomplishes anything. Someone comes along and mentions in the middle of a discussion that they didn't really like (insert a John Byrne title here), or that they read (insert a Bendis/Moore/Ellis/Morrison/"NuMarvel" title here) and really enjoyed it. They get jumped on by one or two long time members, and they respond in kind. Suddenly they're labelled a troll and the board gets a reputation for being full of closed-minded yes men who attack anyone who disagrees with them. So some real trolls show up and take shots and etc, etc. It's neverending.
The only two ways to avoid it, in my opinion, are to either make the board invite-only, making it virtually impossible for a lot of fans of JB to participate, or just take the high road, ignore the trolls, and if you disagree with someone, do so without name calling or accusations. Words to avoid would be "troll", "agenda", "merit badge", and "low post count". While I don't always agree with their decisions, the Mods do their jobs and, more often than not, they do it well. So just let them do it.
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Simon Matthew Park
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2156
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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Matt - Yeah, I agree. I fell into that trap with Kevin Dunstock, and responded. I learned my lesson, though.
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Stan Lomisceau
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2006
Posts: 530
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 11
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THANK YOU AL COOK FOR SAYING WHAT UI WANTED TO AND THAT IS THAT IVOR IS
A ASSHOLE ALWAYS. WHAT A GUY I HATE HIM!! ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS YOU DONT
HAVE T PROVE WHO YOU ARE TO ME OR ANYONE AND IF IVOR SAYS NASTY STUFF
WELL THEN HE IS LIKE THOSE ASSHOLES FROM THE OTHER BOARDS TO ME!!
i am sorry for getting so excited but do not step on the toes of teh
people who have been the loyal ones i respect becausedamn that just
makes it bad for everyone! thanks!
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Michael Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 April 2004
Posts: 8566
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| Posted: 12 November 2006 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 12
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The Mods do a good job. Some of the current "trolls" can usually be found out quickly simply by their first post.
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