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John Northey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 199
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 1
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I just lurked for awhile, scared to say anything and look stupid. But given I have 4 kids and 4 grandkids (5th on the way) looking stupid is something I'm used to so screw it. I suspect many are nervous also about if they say something here that JB might tear them a new one given how his rep is in some places. Luckily he hasn't done that to me yet. Not even when I met him in person at a Mid-Ohio Con in the late 90's and went all fanboy - I had nothing for him to sign, just thanked him for all I have enjoyed from him over the years and that I wanted to shake his hand. Then he gave me a copy of Captain America/Batman and signed it. Still something I love having in my collection. Other pros have been rude, or in one case hit on a girl I was there with (we were just friends, but it was pretty rude as that fact I don't think was obvious - female friends often liked walking around with me as that would 'protect' them from guys hitting on them). Ah well. Rambling now.
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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 2
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And it's disrespectful to the creator to steal his work and post it to Facebook instead of guiding the interested to his website.
==
Joel: The Byrne Victims page goes to great lengths to guide people interested in Elsewhen to come to this page. The owner/moderator is a huge JB fan. Yes, there are the occasional knuckledheads (which you get anywhere), but overall it's a fun spot.
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I agree. Each post contains a link to guide people back to this site.
I’m curious to hear what people feel the “loss” is from the FB posts?
The financial gain from Elsewhen comes from original art sales. If anything, the FB posts are “advertising the art” — potentially creating more sales.
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 3
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There are two different dynamics at play on a social media fan page vs a creator run forum (or creator run social media page). This Forum has been described as visiting JB’s home or living room. And I like that description. It’s HIS page, he’s the host. While it’s great to be able to interact with him and others here, I try to do so with the decorum and deference I would give a host at their home. I wouldn’t criticize any of his work there. On a Facebook page like Byrne Victims, it’s neutral ground. I don’t have to worry about topics that JB doesn’t care for, and I can be critical of things I don’t like (while being a huge fan, it doesn’t mean everything he does is my favorite!). So I think both venues are useful and fun in their own rights. I enjoy both.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6792
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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Nathan: I’m curious to hear what people feel the “loss” is from the FB posts?
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Respect?
If anyone I respect asks me to do something regarding his property, I do it.
If the FB page used enthusiasm to drive traffic here to see Elsewhen where JB wants people to see it, that would show respect.
Doing what is quite clearly and explicitly against his wishes is straight up contempt.
What is the pleasure of seeing the exact same pages at a different website?
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6792
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 5
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Joel: The Byrne Victims page goes to great lengths to guide people interested in Elsewhen to come to this page.
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How does it do that?
I saw the entire latest issue of Elsewhen over there. What could possibly "guide me" here after that?
It does the opposite of guiding by making a visit here unnecessary.
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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 6
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Mark,
I hear you. And perhaps “respect” is the true loss here.
This site obviously provides an experience you won’t find anywhere else — John Byrne is here! I always look forward to seeing new JB art... and I come here first to read Elsewhen pages and follow the discussion... but mostly, I look forward to JB’s insight into the work.
I’m confused by the fans who don’t visit the discussion here. If you’re a true John Byrne fan, why not visit this site? Odd, imo.
That said, this isn’t the 90’s... we all understand how the internet works — when you post something online, someone could possibly repost it. It’s the world we live in. I carved a pumpkin 2 years ago, posted a pic on Instagram, and was shocked to see the pic had gone viral on other sites. No credit given to me... but the pic was getting huge views on other sites. It was bizarre... but that’s just how things work in our modern world. Asking that interest to NOT behave like the internet is pointless.
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Mike Baswell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1996
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 7
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If there were a paywall here on the Forum and the admin of Byrne Victims was hacking the site somehow and taking content to his page and displaying there or worse somehow hacking JB and posting it before it were even available here, THEN it would be a case of pirating on Facebook.
To use a properly attributed link to this site as part of a fan discussion, usually hours after the work is made available here, is really no different than using a direct quote in a paper and listing the source in the bibliography. There are probably those that would say I'm playing with semantics, but that's my take on the matter.
All that being said, As Nathan said, I too come here first to see the art, whatever art JB chooses to post every day, I read the discussions here and then I also read the discussions on FB because I enjoy both.
I don't know why the Forum membership is so much smaller than the Facebook Group, there have been many possible reasons listed above about email problems and such, but the fact is the membership in both places are by and large all John Byrne fans and we're bearing witness to something wonderful with Elsewhen and isn't that all that really matters in the end?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134192
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 8
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It’s called “courtesy”.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6792
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 9
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Sure seems simple to wake up in the morning and not steal the work of my favorite artist and re-post it on my own facebook page against his wishes.
How do people end up with so much g*ddam time on their hands?
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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Bunch of savages out there Mark. Don't let go of those pearls.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17724
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 11
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I wonder how the original team would have responded to Phoenix’s
arrival if they had been present instead of the new team. There’s less
“power” there, but maybe Hank’s brain would have come in handy.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16113
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| Posted: 23 August 2020 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 12
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It’s called “courtesy”.------------------------ Exactly. The explicit request of the creator is that the art be consumed by visiting this site. If you respect the creator, that's what you do. And you don't need to be a member to do that. Maybe you want to discuss on it Facebook. You can do that. No need for the art to be reproduced there though.
Yes, we live in an age where stuff gets shared, reproduced and so forth and it's inevitable. But if you claim you are a fan of an artist, how hard is it to respect the wishes of that artist when they are doing you a favour and handing out free work?
Anyway, thanks once again, JB, for sharing this work you are creating here.
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