Byrne Robotics: Post 9/11 War Comics

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Topic: Post 9/11 War Comics (

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Al Cook
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12734

Posted: 01 August 2008 at 11:40am \| IP Logged \| 1

Thanks, Zaki. A very thoughtful, insightful response.

Bosch's position, in contrast, seems very extreme. Strikes me there
should be a word for that...

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Michael Myers
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Joined: 28 December 2004
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 11:45am \| IP Logged \| 2

Knut wrote:

From what I've read it's about some guy who goes into conflict areas tracking the bad guys wearing a costume made out of pig-leather so that he can frighten the terrorists with his uncanny power of being "unclean". Amazingly subtle. Is this wrong?

I gathered that the story involved: "...my second graphic novel, THE INFIDEL, about twin brothers whose Muslim background comes to the forefront of their lives on 9/11. One responds by creating a counter-jihad superhero comic book called PIGMAN, as the other surrenders to Islam and becomes a Born Again Muslim, following the faith to wherever it leads him."

While we would presumably see the viewpoint of one of the brother's played out via the Pigman characters' adventures taking over a section of the book, the theme is ostensibly the duality of man as expressed through the two lead characters, isn't it? With the Pigman character possibly serving as the focal point for one of them? The question of subtlety is beyond any of the commentators in this thread, at this point. It is also an element at the discretion of the creator...just how subtle was 1984, after all? How subtle was Maus? In the end, it is all liable to the conscious choice of the creator and his desired aims.

I like the premise of exploring the question of Islam's foundation through the eyes of two brothers. It may or may not be terribly innovative, but I can't think of any reason why a comic shouldn't pursue the question...via Bosch's Pigman or somebody else's more sympathetic character.

Bosch, more power to you. 'Hope you find a publisher...though, since the comics industry skews left and no one is looking to rock the boat anymore (look at your Miller comparison), it's going to take more than "best wishes" from a stranger to get this project off the ground. Can't really judge from any sequential storytelling, but I like your art.

Everyone else? Most of the loudest cats in this thread have participated vociferously in religious threads denouncing all religion as inherently wrongheaded and counter-productive. Granted, the focus of their ire is almost always on Western Christianity. Or, those that quickly leap to play the censorship card. I find it a bit laughable to see so many people donning their red sweaters and taking offense at a comic that hasn't been published, yet. We're not talking about Batman wearing armor, here, people.

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Michael Myers
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 11:51am \| IP Logged \| 3

BTW, Knut, it is the Albigensian Crusade, not the Reconquista, usually credited with the "Kill 'em all..." bit.

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Al Cook
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Joined: 21 December 2004
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 11:58am \| IP Logged \| 4

Careful with your broad brush, Michael. It's not the comic I take offense to
(the very suggestion that it is strikes me as a bit of a 'red sweater' itself, as
it completely misses the point). Nor have I vociferously participated in
religious threads. I'm not certain if I've played the 'censorship card'
anywhere or not, but I certainly don't recall having done so. Or am I not one
of "the loudest cats in this thread"?

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Brian Talley
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:06pm \| IP Logged \| 5

Wise desision, Martin.....you have saved yourself so much sorrow. :)

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Martin Kogan
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:08pm \| IP Logged \| 6

How could I not, Brian?

I love breakfasts :)

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Michael Myers
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:15pm \| IP Logged \| 7

Al, you know I discount you as a matter of course. After all, how often do you really say anything?

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Al Cook
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Joined: 21 December 2004
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:15pm \| IP Logged \| 8

Brian Talley wrote:

Wise desision, Martin.....you have saved yourself so
much sorrow. :)

Personally, I can't understand why Martin hasn't included Kevin Hagerman in
his Jihad. Why no love for the Hammerhead?

Edited by Al Cook on 01 August 2008 at 12:17pm

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Bosch Fawstin
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:17pm \| IP Logged \| 9

Knut: 'Is this wrong?'

Very

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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Joined: 22 September 2006
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:17pm \| IP Logged \| 10

"BTW, Knut, it is the Albigensian Crusade, not the Reconquista, usually credited with the "Kill 'em all..." bit. "

Okay. My source gave it as part of the Reconquista. Not negating my point, though?

And yes, I'm denouncing religion as counter productive. Doesn't mean I'm declaring war on christians, does it? Anymore than I'm declaring war on moslems. From my perspective, picking a fight with everybody when the extremists are the most pressing issue and moderates and liberals may be our allies in that respect, is also counter productive.

That we're contradicting your reductionist view of us isn't our fault.

And we're not taking offense at the comic "that hasn't been published yet," we're offering our opinion on what he's giving us. If a movie studio releases a trailer of a movie, and we comment on what we think the movie will be based on the trailer , which is how they presumably want to perceived, then "you can't comment because you haven't seen the movie" is a bullshit argument.

Bosch came on this board quite a long time ago to promote his comic and solicit opinions on it, several of us checked it out then and voiced our opinions on it and it's still the same thing.

He wants to stick it to the terrorists? Fine. We're saying that what he's telling us about the characters, the story and his views on the issues he's going to discuss convinces us that the story is going to be simplistic, crude and generally not very good.

And hey, he tells us there aren't any post 9/11 war comics, but I mentioned at least one (Special forces by Kyle Baker) and asked him if he'd read it. Ostensibly those war comics (and not promotion of his book) were the topic and he didn't even respond to the on-topic post.

There are also issues of Punisher and as I recall a few other post 9/11 war stories, though I haven't made a list. Quite a few good ones as I recall.

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Bosch Fawstin
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Joined: 23 April 2004
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:18pm \| IP Logged \| 11

I will have more thorough responses later, at least to those who aren't begging to be dismissed in kind with a far better cheap shot than they can muster.

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Martin Kogan
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:18pm \| IP Logged \| 12

A slight mistake easily corrected, Al.

Now Zaki, Al, Brian and Kevin are my all-time favorite posters.

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