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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 19 March 2025 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

"Thank god Mantlo was around to write the character after the character’s
creator abandoned him."

---

How did this "writer" not point out that Mantlo revealed that Northstar was an actual fairy??
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 March 2025 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

He’s not Gay! He’s a fairy!!

sigh

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Having grown up in the U.K. in the 60's and 70's when
"fairy" was a common gay slur, that revelation took me
aback.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Oh, it was common in the U.S., too. Just catch almost any episode of THREE'S COMPANY*.

*Full circle, it was based on a British sitcom called MAN ABOUT THE HOUSE.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Recalling one of the gang sitting on a roof on PYTHON and responding to a “man in the street” interview by bellowing “I’m not in the street ya fairy!”

The times, they change!

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ron bailey
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 - but the idea that one cannot write a demographic unless one IS that demographic is antithetical to artistic creation.I'm 100% in agreement that more diverse creator voices are a boon for the medium - for ANY medium - but the idea that one cannot write a demographic unless one IS that demographic is antithetical to artistic creation.
...............
Denzel Washington had a pretty good take on this: "There is something to be gained from Spielberg directing Schindler's List, Scorcese directing GoodFellas or Lee directing Malcolm X, even though each of those directors would have done a perfectly fine job directing any of those films".
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Brian ONeill
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

'J___n B___e'.
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ron bailey
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Jason Bourne? :)
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

@Ron: Malcolm X, Schindler's List, etc., are in a different category because they're explicitly and centrally about the experience of being a black man in mid-century America and a Jewish European during the Holocaust, and I DO think those types of identity-centered stories are best handled by people with a personal experience and cultural heritage of them. Theme and intent are key considerations in things like this.

Northstar is about representation, not experience.* 

And certainly, if JB had set out to make an ongoing, serious (ie, not with humorous intent like his pre-pro 'Gay Man' strip) series centrally about gay life with Jean-Paul as the protagonist, yeah - that'd be super iffy.

But that's not what he did and, crucially, not what the essayist and others are taking issue with; they're saying point blank that as a straight male writer/creator of an ensemble superhero book, even creating and writing a character who happens to be gay - even as that identity is never remotely close to being what the book is about - is somehow wrong. That's where I have real issues, because the reverse implication is that if a gay writer did a Spider-Man run, that they'd be incapable of doing so because Peter Parker is straight. It's an absurdly reductionist approach to art.

JB also created Kitty Pryde, the first identifiably Jewish character in mainstream comics. As a young Jew reading those books, I appreciated seeing a little of my own identity reflected on the page and never for a half-second thought (even now) that she was in some way inauthentic. Now, if JB had decided he wanted to make a sequel to A Contract with God starring Kitty... that would have been odd and kinda presumptuous. Because it's no longer a Jewish character in a story that has nothing to do (mostly) with her Jewishness, but a story that's 100% about her experience as a Jew. Not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, but it raises the stakes on both the artist and the work they create.

Jean-Paul is a weightier symbol because of his being first in line. But JB certainly can't be held responsible for what later writers did to put their own take on the gay experience via their presentation of the character.

*And, yes, representation shouldn't just be on the page but behind it as well. Just not always, only, and exclusively a 1-to-1 match up between the creator and their creation.  

Aside: Washington was likely talking explicitly about the controversy of Norman Jewison leaving Malcolm X, and probably also as a sidebar about Spielberg directing The Color Purple.


Edited by Dave Kopperman on 21 March 2025 at 1:40pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

…creating and writing a character who happens to be gay - even as that identity is never remotely close to being what the book is about…

•••

You touch here on the probable crux of the matter. As with any time I have touched upon “minorities”—even Canadians!—there have been those who find cause to complain if the work does not present a textbook dissertation on the subject. And, of course, the “correct” dissertation. ie, the opinion held by the particular reader.

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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

It's one of those places progressives (which I largely am) get the goals of the movement entangled with the ideals of the movement and the machinery spits out the wrong answer: that 1-to-1 creator/creation identity alignment is not only preferable but (for lack of a better term) morally correct.

The act of creation - when done in good faith - is an expression of empathy, and empathy is foundational to civilization.* If you want to be a good writer, you first need to be able to effectively put yourself into someone else's shoes. If anything, progressives should be encouraging these acts of cross-cultural creation to widen our communal understanding of our shared humanity and needs. 

*You can tell how important empathy really is to a functional society because Musk says "the fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy" as a pretext to his destruction of the social safety net.


Edited by Dave Kopperman on 20 March 2025 at 8:14pm
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Jean Voulis
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Posted: 20 March 2025 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Dave K - well said on all counts.

There is an idiot ex-Marvel editor who constantly espouses that 'minority' characters should only be written by creators from that same 'minority' - nonsense.

Insulting to the creators who have given us so many diverse characters without hitting us over the head with it.
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