Michael M besides your opinion, where are you getting your facts? please provide sources, as in a link to back up what you are saying.

Geoff I have to disagree completely with you, to say :Both democratic and republican leadership didn't rally their troops very well!

To have the amount of support Bush got from the democrats is remarkable, they put aside their distain for this joke of a president, after the Bush "you gotta move fast they have WMD and were the 9/11 masterminds" war vote, to have democrats back any plan of his is shocking. I am not sure what is right, bail out or not, I wish I knew where we could see a detailed reading of the plan. I tend to say let the chips fall where they may.

Geoff I have to disagree completely with you, to say :Both democratic and republican leadership didn't rally their troops very well!

Jodi:

Something like 40% of the democratic house members voted against the measure.  The measure had the support and strong endorsement of the Majority leader, the banking leader and the Speaker.  Did they have better results than the GOP leadership which saw in excess of 60% of the members go against the leadership, absolutely! But when the majority's leadership can't rally the troops to pass legislation its a sign of poor leadership (or obviously backing the wrong horse).  That Pelosi, Frank and Hoyer backed the measure and failed to have the necessary votes in their pockets to not need the GOP votes was the weakness in leadership as I see it.  I suspect thats why Pelosi had her diatribe to try to point blame away from the congressional leadership problems.  Not sure I'm right you understand.  Just my read on the situation

By the same token I don't see how the GOP can be happy, politically speaking, when the congress rebukes not only the sitting president, but also the party's presidential candidate who publicly wanted a deal done.  So thats why I think its a leadership problem for both parties.

Watch the video, interesting

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/frank-because-someb ody-hu_n_130328.html

Geoff I am shocked it was that high, I am not sure any plan that had Bush approval, would be a plan I would support is an understatement. I am shocked they were able to get 60%.

Joe, there's no reasonable comparison possible with the "Great Depression."

Michael from everything I have been hearing, they have been comparing this to a possible Great Depression, I am just wondering where you are getting that it is not. I am worried as hell and if you can calm my fears I would love it.

Jodi:

I don't think Bush helped it, but honestly? He so irrelevant now I don't think he hurt it either! I think the naysayers in both parties were reacting to constituant concerns (which in and of itself is a good thing).  Leadership is supposed to get them to pull the party line and I think there is little doubt that leadership wanted this measure passed.*

As to the comparisons to the great depression -- I think they are off in part because employment (compared to that time) is high.  In 1930 (or thereabouts) unemployment was like 30%.  So a credit crisis, closed banks and no income = depression.  Thats my very rudimentary understanding.

*Espescially the party in power wants something done! I don't think Ms. Pelosi wanted her members going home to campaign having done nothing, not when the economy is (correctly) the linchpin of democratic election strategy this year!

As to the comparisons to the great depression -- I think they are off in part because employment (compared to that time) is high.  In 1930 (or thereabouts) unemployment was like 30%.  So a credit crisis, closed banks and no income = depression.  Thats my very rudimentary understanding.

Though I had understood 25%, but same difference.  Now, here's the thing - I've suggested this a few times, and have gotten no confirmation or disagreement - possibly because I've upset enough people that I'm mostly on "ignore" - but my understanding is that we need to infuse this money into the banking system to keep them fluid and viable so the stocks do not reach a set nadir, whereby credit becomes unprofitable and... the end result, as you say, would be "credit crisis, closed banks and no income"

Let me stress this point - I make an attempt to live my life by the words of FDR - "The only thing to fear is fear itself" - so I applaud those who suggest we all calm down and don't be afraid of this.

Having said that, I also think there's a difference between not being afraid and not paying attention; from my observations, we're not headed in the right direction, and we need to address it, if we want to avoid certain consequences.  I think there's a lot of politics being played - it's a shame this had to happen right before an election. 

http://www.wboy.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=447 52

It's been a long time since I had anything good to say about unions, but...

Let me stress this point - I make an attempt to live my life by the words of FDR - "The only thing to fear is fear itself"

And hot dog pie.  Fear the hot dog pie.  Otherwise, yeah, Mike I think we basically agree.  I'm not certain what the appropriate delivery system would be for such an infusion though.

 I think there's a lot of politics being played - it's a shame this had to happen right before an election. 

But not terribly surprising!

QUOTE: But we now live in a credit card society, where millions of people live beyond their means.

Absolutely true.  I'm very thankful I've been influenced first by my "thrifty" mother and later by my bank-affiliated and economically smart father-in-law and wife.  We live in a modest-sized house, not a square foot larger than we need for our family of four; we have no credit card debt, and everything we buy comes straight out the debit card.  I can't wish for others to do the same, but it sure has made our lives less stressful!

I was somewhat surprised at how much the Bush administration compromised with Congressional Democrats on this bailout bill. It started as something like a two-page memo from Secretary Paulson and ended up as a 109-page proposal after Congress got ahold of it. The bill that was voted on included all of the major proposals raised by Democrats.

At the end of the day, I just think the majority of Representatives responded to their constituents back home. My local Congressman said 90 to 95 percent of calls and e-mails he received from voters were opposed to the bailout.

Would this have played out differently if we weren't five weeks before an election? Who knows?

Greg, I, too, was raised by a thrifty mother. I'm nowhere near as good at pinching pennies as she is, but I still try to live by her basic rules -- which sound like the same rules you live by.

Which I guess is what bugs me about this whole bailout deal. The people, like Greg's family, who have been responsible with their money now are being asked to rescue the greedy CEOs who made bad business decisions and the irresponsible homeowners who bought way more house than they could afford.

Perhaps that's the way it has to be, but it strikes me as unfair.