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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 1  

Michael, thanks for the link. Interesting take on the situation.

I remember a few years ago when Sheila Copps, then Deputy Prime Minister, said that she believed that any woman anywhere in the world who was being mistreated because of her gender should be allowed to come to Canada. At the time I thought "what are we going to do with 2 billion women?"


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Al Cook
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 2  

Well, I had some ideas...
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | 3  

Ha.

I wish I had your stamina, Al.

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William McCormick
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 4  

So it would seem a disgruntled employee was fired and taking shots back?

**********

If what she saw was so horrific, why not call the authorities. By her own testimony she held one of the dying botched abortions in her arms for 45 minutes.

"One night, a nursing co-worker was taking an aborted Down's Syndrome baby who was born alive to our Soiled Utility Room because his parents did not want to hold him, and she did not have time to hold him. I could not bear the thought of this suffering child dying alone in a Soiled Utility Room, so I cradled and rocked him for the 45 minutes that he lived. He was 21 to 22 weeks old, weighed about ½ pound, and was about 10 inches long."

Why not call the police and show them what was going on. Why not call anyone. Maybe because she had an agenda.

"Abortion is a cancer that is literally killing America. It is killing our children while it is killing our consciences. It began when we took God out of our decision-making and proclaimed that the little beings growing inside of women were "products of conception" and not little girls and little boys."

 

Color me skeptical that any of it happened.

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Scott Richards
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 5  

I can't believe anyone is defending this in any way.  Who the frick cares if the nurse may have been disgruntled.  It doesn't matter if the baby was left in a soiled closet or on a silk blanket in a golden room.  This practice leaves children die who could live in incubation.  Obama was THE ONLY Senator who fought to allow this vile, disgusting practice?  Voting against the bill 3 times?  I hadn't about this heard this.  Don't believe that it really happens?  What's the harm in a bill that prevents it even if you don't think it happens just to be safe? I thought Obama was a nice guy but I just diasgreed with his politics.  Now he disgusts me. 

Edited by Scott Richards on 26 September 2008 at 6:50pm
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | 6  

I think, and Jodi correct me if I'm wrong, that we both feel the comfort and dignity of the child, and the child's family, is what's at issue here, in that order. I wouldn't treat my neighbors cat that way, and I hate cats.

Was there truly a national investigation over something that never happened?

While at college I was a pharmacy tech at our local hospital and this is not something they would ever had allowed. As I said, I think if this did happen , people should have been fired. But I also know this was championed by the anti choice people. As far as Obama supporting it and others didn't, like the war in Iraq he stood for his beliefs that this law was to far reaching, even though it was not popular.

Can you imagine being a senator that voted against this. It like that old question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" 

I am anti abortion,  but I do not think I should make this choice for others.

 



Edited by Jodi Moisan on 26 September 2008 at 6:54pm
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 7  

Scott wrote:
What's the harm in a bill that prevents it even if you don't think it happens just to be safe?



You support legislation that prevents things that don't happen? Not enough REAL problems in the world, you think laws have to be passed to prevent imaginary wrongs?


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Scott Richards
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 8  

Unless there is proof that it didn't happen, there was enough evidence for every other Senator to support it.  They had a heck of a lot more information to make that determination than anyone in this forum does.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 9  

Obama wisely (not politically wisely, but wisely in the human being sense) realized that the bill was a trap set by abortion foes - it gave them the wedge they needed to advance their cause.

The other Senators went along with it because they had to - they were concerned about this sort of thing - that agents like that nurse would smear their name as people who supported baby killing (even if it didn't even happen, or she herself was to blame)  - but Obama, a professor of Constitutional law, knew that this was a stunt being used to play to emotions and advance a cause, not save a life.

Anyone who feels any anger or disgust that the baby in the closet died?  Blame that nurse.  Why didn't she do anything to keep it alive?  She manipulated the death of a baby to move her cause forward.  I can think of nothing so vile.

This doesn't happen.  Doctors aren't thowing babies in closets to die.  That does not happen.  And if and when it does, the police should be notified and the doctor's licence to practice medicine should be removed. Anything else is like saying we need to cancel welfare because someone saw someone buying booze with food stamps.  If a person breaks the law, you get them for it, you don't enact oppressive laws that effect the people who obey the law.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | 10  

I think Mike might be right. This law seems like a veiled attack on
abortion rights. Here's what the President said about the law when he
signed it into law:

THE PRESIDENT: Well, thank you all very much for this bill signing
ceremony. I'm pleased to sign it in the great city of Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. The history of our country is the story of a promise, a
promise of life and liberty made at our founding and fulfilled over the
centuries in our laws. It is a story of expanding inclusion and protection
for the ignored and the weak and the powerless. And now we extend the
promise and protection to the most vulnerable members of our society.

Today I sign the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This important
legislation ensures that every infant born alive -- including an infant who
survives an abortion procedure -- is considered a person under federal
law. (Applause.) This reform was passed with the overwhelming support
of both political parties, and it is about to become the law of the land.

I appreciate so very much Senator Rick Santorum and Congressman Steve
Chabot from Ohio for sponsoring this important piece of legislation. I also
appreciate Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Congresswoman
Melissa Hart for coming, as well. I want to thank the Bishop of the
Diocese of Pittsburgh, Bishop Wuerl, for being here. It's good to see you
again, Bishop. I appreciate Hadley Arkes, the Professor of Jurisprudence
and American Institutions at Amherst University. I want to thank Jill
Stanek, registered nurse, Labor and Delivery Unit, Christ Hospital and
Medical Center, for being here, as well. I appreciate Gianna Jessen, who is
an abortion survivor and a pro-life advocate. I want to thank Dr. Watson
Bowes, who is a Professor Emeritus of Gynecology and Obstetrics at the
University of North Carolina.

I want to thank you all for coming. It's important that you're here, to send
a signal that you're dedicated to the protection of human life. The issue
of abortion divides Americans, no question about it. Yet today we stand
on common ground. The Born Alive Infants Protection Act establishes a
principle in America law and American conscience: there is no right to
destroy a child who has been born alive. (Applause.) A child who is born
has intrinsic worth and must have the full protection of our laws.

Today, through sonograms and other technology, we can clearly -- see
clearly that unborn children are members of the human family, as well.
(Applause.) They reflect our image, and they are created in God's own
image.

The Born Alive Infants Protection Act is a step toward the day when every
child is welcomed in life and protected in law. (Applause.) It is a step
toward the day when the promises of the Declaration of Independence
will apply to everyone, not just those with the voice and power to defend
their rights. This law is a step toward the day when America fully
becomes, in the words of Pope John Paul II, "a hospitable, a welcoming
culture."

Our society has enough compassion, wealth and love to care for mothers
and their children, and to see the promise and potential of every life. In
protecting the vulnerable and the weak, the imperfect and the unwanted,
you are affirming a culture of life.

I'm grateful for your perseverance on behalf of this noble cause. I want to
thank you for your hard work. I appreciate your care for every member of
the human family. Thank you for coming today. It's now my honor and
pleasure to sign into law the Born Alive Infants Protection Act.
(Applause.)


Those comments, particularly this: "a step toward the day when the
promises of the Declaration of Independence will apply to everyone, not
just those with the voice and power to defend their rights" is right out of
the anti-abortion playbook. I don't know the specifics of the law but how
does it handle a "brain dead" infant "born" from a botched abortion?
Should Government overrule the Mother (or the parents) when the choice
to terminate the pregnancy is made, particularly if the child will have no
quality of life or no hope of long term survival? Is it more humane to
allow the child to languish?

As to Obama's vote was the Illinois measure the same as the Federal
measure?

Edited by Geoff Gibson on 26 September 2008 at 8:41pm
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 11  

Well What did you all think?

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Scott Richards
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Posted: 26 September 2008 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | 12  

Now that the debate is over...

Obama wisely (not politically wisely, but wisely in the human being sense) realized that the bill was a trap set by abortion foes - it gave them the wedge they needed to advance their cause.

Mike, so Obama was the only wise one in the entire Senate? 

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