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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 1
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"The thing is, I haven't heard the line "Hey pull yourself up by your own bootstraps." When applied to this huge government bailout. "
Considering the depth of the Quagmire the US is in now, perhaps they should switch to "pull yourself up by your own hair" (like in the Baron Von Munchausen story)
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2711
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 2
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I was noticing steady and significant decline in my 401K and mutual funds during Clinton's last year in office. While the current administration didn't do anything to help while the years they were in office, the downturn had already started before they got into power.
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Jeff Alan Hays
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2007
Posts: 133
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 3
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"Wow, Chris -- you sure do get pissed off over a couple of innocent quotes, don't you?"
***********************************
I didn't interpret those replies as being angry, but simply an attempt to clarify the extent of interest group contributions and the variety of candidates who accept them.
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Christopher Alan Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2787
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 4
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If there hadn't been a bailout , we would have bypassed recession.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article3656.html
How's this economy working for you Christopher?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So Bush just saved us from a depression? That was nice of him.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36446
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 5
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But the point Tom was making wasn't that Dems don't benefit from special interest groups, but that McCain is making it his mantra to stop lobbyist influence as well as that of big business...all the while having many of them in positions of power in his campaign.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36446
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 6
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Jodi Moisan wrote:
| but to credit Bush with such a complicated plan, come on, the mans a nitwit. |
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As much as I am loathe to defend Bush, you can't withhold credit for the bailout from Bush on the grounds that it's too complicated for someone like him to understand while claiming he's one of the masterminds behind the buildup to our incursion in Iraq. He can't be smart and cunning enough to do one and too dumb to understand the other. In other words, every president relies on the Fed, Congress, the Senate, the FBI, the CIA, political advisers, etc. to aid them in making choices. To lay it all at the feet of one person such that they, and they alone, are expected to understand every piece of legislation to the word is silly at best. Comments like the one I quoted from you above look petty in that light. Too many things we can actually criticize Bush for that the above feels like a cheap potshot to me.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36446
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 7
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Christopher Allen Miller wrote:
| He's leading in one out of four polls. |
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So it's a statistical dead heat given +/-. What I'd be interested in is how close other Democratic Presidential candidates have polled at this time in the campaign in Indiana. That would be more telling to me than pulling poll numbers this week for the state and claiming McCain is ahead.
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Jeff Alan Hays
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2007
Posts: 133
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 8
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A perspective I pulled from Christopher's comments is that a variety of candidates accept donations from lobbyists while not remaining clear on their opposition or support of such groups. For example, in Reid's case, he has taken seemingly conflicting views regarding deregulation of such institutions.
This seems to be a common problem with many politicians from a multitude of political backgrounds and affiliations.
At any rate, as stated, I didn't see his Christopher's response as pissed off.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 9
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I didn't see it as pissed off, but misplaced. The point isn't that Tom was trying to say Democrats don't benefit from special interest groups but that McCain has made it his rallying cry to rout them out while having many in his employ. He's taken a definitive position and yet his actions appear to be contradictory. So pulling Democrats taking campaign contributions from special interest groups and posting right after Tom's post seems, at least to me, misplaced. Have those Democrats made it as much of a rallying cry as McCain? Not from what I've seen and read over the last decade.
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Jeff Alan Hays
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Joined: 20 January 2007
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 10
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That's fine. We're in partial agreement. I think it's useful to see how candidates are supported. Whether it's McCain's rallying cry or someone else's political philosophy, accepting money from seemingly oppositional sources appears questionable. And, to me, pertinent to the conversation.
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Michael Retour
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Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 932
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 11
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Pick up today's Chicago Tribune and some of the details are spelled out there.
There was a run on the money markets funds ($90b in one day by freaked out Americans) per the Trib but that's not half the story.
The Trib further goes on, in one of the articles, that the banks have not been telling the American public how bad it is (as I said many times). In other words, the banks have been lying and the regulators (where have we heard this before? The FAA maybe?) let them slide until it became a panicked run.
I am sure any newspaper large enough has all the gory details.
The Trib says the price tag is $700b now but in the printed edition it said $500b so in the space of a few hours it went up $200b and that's just a guess on the part of everyone and does not to address the systemic crisis whatsoever.
You get a run on the banks and then you will see something no one here has ever seen. Yeah, people were lining up outside Countrywide but nationally and internationally? Not in this country in a long time.
Some news show was asking people if they felt better now and the reaction was mixed.
My friend Tremonti, Italian Finance Minister said this:
"The
intellectual capital of the category [of economists] has been canceled. They did not understand what has happened, and
now they look at the effects instead of the cause." He used a famous
sentence by Carl Schmitt against jurists who could not see Nazism
coming, against the economists. "Today I say: economists, be silent."
Myers will get a kick out of that right Mike because Tremonti is nuts right?
Edited by Michael Retour on 20 September 2008 at 10:43am
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 20 September 2008 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 12
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he's one of the masterminds behind the buildup to our incursion in Iraq. He can't be smart and cunning enough to do one and too dumb to understand the other.
He was not the mastermind behind the Iraq invasion, I have always said he is the puppet for Cheney.
I see them like this: Howdy Doodyhead
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